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Anonymous Poster

Electricity is Highly Abstract

01/10/2011 2:05 AM

Hello guys. i m doing my high- school and this seems to be highly abstract. Voltage/potential difference is considered as an equivalent to the pressure in fluids to understand. and also when there is goin to be a high potential difference, more current flows (as told in many papers in internet). But why does the current starts to increase and voltage reduces in a load like motor. Are'n they contradictory or am i understandin the concept completely wrong. i mean, when when voltage is considered as a force tat pushes electrons n make current to flow, how come current increases when the voltage itself decrease in a load? but i understand by the equation tat P=IV so to maintain a constant power they have to balance eachother. but in doing so, are they not contradicting their nature ??

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#1

Re: Electricity is highly abstract

01/10/2011 2:28 AM

The motor generates a "back voltage" (more commonly called back emf, or back electromotive force) that opposes the incoming current because its conductors are moving through a magnetic field. However, if it is under load, the back emf is reduced as energy goes into turning the load. (In essence, the potential energy of the back emf is converted to the kinetic energy required to maintain rotary motion.) If the back emf opposing the incoming current is reduced, the current increases. If the applied voltage is reduced, the motor's ability to generate back emf is likewise reduced, so current increases.

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#2

Re: Electricity is highly abstract

01/10/2011 2:30 AM

These are good questions, and in time (soon, I bet) you will acquire enough mathematics to understand them.

Now here is a really abstract statement: Electricity is actually an offshoot of theory of complex variables. (e = sinθ + i cosθ). Right now that may be over your head, but when you do come to understand it, it's gorgeous!

It sounds as though you already know that voltage and current in AC circuits are basically sine waves, each of which increases and decreases. If they increase and decrease at the same times, they are in phase. But one of these waves can lead ahead or lag behind the other, so that while one is still rising, the other has begun to fall.

I don't want to get carried away right now with too much trigonometry, but that is the field that you will learn in order to understand all of this.

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #2

Re: Electricity is highly abstract

01/10/2011 4:07 AM

This phase difference between current and voltage (which i believe they refer as power factor lagging/leading) seems to bring in little sense in understanding the relationship between I and V. Thank you. I came across this which lead to all the ambiguity in me --> Low voltage levels are maintained in industries (ELV = 50V) so that the amount of current flow causing the shock reduces .. so i thought they are directly proportional as per Ohms law assumin that the conductor resistance is going to be the same. Thats when i started to think if low voltages are used to reduce the current levels in industries, how come high voltage lines carry lesser current during transmission. i knw this discussion mite be completely silly for u guys but jus want to get my basics right before i swim deeper. :) thanks in advance.

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: Electricity is highly abstract

01/10/2011 7:39 PM

This depends on what is kept constant.

For DC, power (watts) = volts x amps. Thus, for the same amount of power, more volts means less amps, and vice versa.

On the other hand, by Ohm's Law, volts = amps x resistance. Thus, for the same resistance, more voltage means more amps.

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Anonymous Poster
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Electricity is highly abstract

01/11/2011 2:44 AM

Mathematically i got it when u say tat to maintain same power, When voltage decreases, current has to increase n vice versa. and u also say tat V=IR. how could they co-exist is wat my problem is all about. how could current (rate of flow of charge increase) when the voltage (energy required to move a charge thru some distance) reduces, meanin how can they co exist. anyway. i shud be really annoyin by now to all of u to float on this issue.

thanks for watever u ppl have shared with me :)

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#3

Re: Electricity is highly abstract

01/10/2011 2:58 AM

220v isn't highly abstract once you touch it.
Anyhow, that's why the oscilloscope is the best tool.
I had a young lad on work experience with me for the monring a while back, I showed him a simple switch, resistor and pp3 battery operating on the 'scope... not very impressed, until I cranked up the time base and you could see the switch bounce... he was impressed then.
Del

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Anonymous Poster
#5

Re: Electricity is highly abstract

01/10/2011 4:09 AM

This phase difference between current and voltage (which i believe they refer as power factor lagging/leading) seems to bring in little sense in understanding the relationship between I and V. Thank you. I came across this which lead to all the ambiguity in me --> Low voltage levels are maintained in industries (ELV = 50V) so that the amount of current flow causing the shock reduces .. so i thought they are directly proportional as per Ohms law assumin that the conductor resistance is going to be the same. Thats when i started to think if low voltages are used to reduce the current levels in industries, how come high voltage lines carry lesser current during transmission. i knw this discussion mite be completely silly for u guys but jus want to get my basics right before i swim deeper. :) thanks in advance.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Electricity is highly abstract

01/10/2011 2:03 PM

I've never heard of this ELV=50V being some kind of low voltage standard.

Power is transmitted and delivered usually on 3 conductors from a 3 phase generator. From there you derive DC power for most electronic circuits to use as a power source. It is not reasonable to send DC power over long distances.

The power in some load is P which is equal to the product of the voltage applied to it and the current through it.

Or in equation form P=VI

When you introduce phasing or power factor you have slipped from the time domain to the phase domain. Be sure to leave a trail of bread crumbs so you can find your way back and don't forget your calculator.

If you lower the voltage (V) then the current must Increase to maintain the power level required to get the same amount of work done.

Power Transformers convert between levels of voltage and current. If transmission loss is wire resistance (R) times Current (I) then by raising the voltage as high as you can manage, you then proportionally reduce the current and thus have the minimum power loss due to resistance.

When discussing power delivery it is more common to refer to the single phase or three phase voltage levels and frequency. The three phase discussion is more complex.

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Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: Electricity is highly abstract

01/10/2011 4:31 AM

Say during a fault when the current is going to flow into the ground, it would rise the potential of the area to a higher level compared to a reference point in the surrounding area (assuming this bcos of the poor conductivity of certain layers of soil). This is dangerous for a person to stand in that area as there is a risk of becomin the path fr the high currents to flow through him. So even in this case , Both voltage and current are directly proportional unlike the relationship bet them during transmission in the overhead lines.. am i in the right track ?

I convinced myself that since in case of a motor as asked above , to satisfy a constant power demand, current which has the capacity to do work has to increase to meet the demand as voltage (which is basically the energy per charge) is not sufficient. I could imagine more no. of electrons of certain charge flowing to the load to meet the increase in power as the charge stored in those electrons is insufficient to meet the load.. But then y shud voltage which is the energy/charge, has to reduce?

to increase the potential we could accumulate charges right? But in case we need to increase the potential of a single particle, wat kind of a work has to be done on them? any practical methods to do so ?

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