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Anonymous Poster

Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

02/23/2011 9:36 AM

I was trying to confirm some information a friend of mine suggested about getting higher fuel mileage on my 2005 TDI VW Diesel. I was told that if I put a 15k resistor (wattage unknown) across the two wire plug connector going to Fuel Temp. Sensor that it would trick the ECM into thinking that the fuel was at a lower fuel temp. The resistor produces a higher resistance and a higher voltage flow to the ECM. The FTS works off of 5 volts of current going to the sensor. The resistance range of the sensor is 420 ohms to 610 ohms. The higher resistance will trick the ECM into changing the timing to reflect a cold start situation. My questions are: (1) will this work? (2) Will my vehicle be hard to start in certain situations?, (3) Will this cause any long term damage to the engine? (4) What would the wattage variable be to result in the total resistance required [1/4 watt, 1/2 watt, 1/8 watt]? (5) In theory what is taking place to get higher fuel mileage just a change in timing?

Looking to get some answers before I try this. Thanks

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#1

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

02/23/2011 9:46 AM

You could do more harm than good, and any effect would probably be illusory or marginal at best.

You are probably better off simply removing your right shoe, it will have more effect.
Look further ahead when driving, try to just lift off rather than brake, imagine you have a box of eggs on the roof. That sort of driving will have more effect on the mpg.
Oh and stick to the speed limits.
Del

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#9
In reply to #1

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

03/05/2011 9:44 AM

Very good point about lifting off the gas sooner than later. Also, get a run going down hill and let the inertia get you over the top by lifting slightly before you reach the top. I think most people in the U.S.A. try to maintain speed too much. (cruise control is , in the long run a waste of gas if not used properly) . If they would "drive right", like Europeans, it would save an enormous amount of fuel AND allow drivers to calm down a little bit. "DRIVE RIGHT" as you know, means lots of things, including all trucks convoy in the right lane and never change lanes except to get off, all drivers choose a lane to be in and stay there, ABSOLUTLY NO TAILGATING ALLOWED, (cuts down on road rage) This obsession we seem to have with changing lanes just to fill in the gaps is absurd. Road rage and lack of patients is the biggest waste of fuel by far. V W has always had a handle on fuel economy.

I used to play a game in rush hour traffic (which lasts all day now), where I tried not to use my breaks much, and I didn't speed up too much. By leaving a good gap in front of me allowed me time to "coast" , and when the car in front of me slowed to a stop, I usually did not have to break before they sped up again. "eggs on top" is a great way to look at it. This system works well except for one thing, no one will let "gaps" exist, and the drivers (including trucks) are constantly changing lanes. All a part of road rage in congested traffic.

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#2

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

02/23/2011 10:01 AM

If you think of what happens to an engine when your starting in cold temps, you then can understand that this is a condition by which you would not want to operate under. As the engine tries to fire when it is cold, more fuel is placed into the system; ie, cylinders. Having this condition on all of the time (if this is what your friend is stating) is not good. I would suggest as others might state. Keep your foot out of it.

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#3

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

02/23/2011 10:04 AM

Just think why would manufacturer had not chosen to do so? there must be some trade off.

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#4

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

02/23/2011 11:52 AM

Some answers numbered to match your questions:

1) It could work, but the change is so slight that I doubt that you could measure it. 2) Unlikely, but you may get some raw diesel smell. However, given the small change in equivalent resistance, I doubt that you'll notice. 3) I doubt it, although the engine would last longer with the stock timing, which results in lower peak cylinder pressures. 4) Any of these would do. 5 volts across 15K ohms results in very little current, and therefore very little wattage. 5) The timing normally is advanced a little for cold starting, to give the fuel a little longer to vaporise. So tricking the computer will advance the timing slightly all the time. This leads to higher peak pressures, higher NOx emissions, and lower fuel consumption. (The new resistance at 450 "real" ohms would be 436 ohms, a pretty small change. By pure guess, this might be interpreted as a difference of 20 degrees f temperature.)

In this article they experimented with timing, and found they could get .75 mpg better fuel mileage with the timing optimised for one running condition. Ordinarily, you cannot accurately measure .75 mpg difference on a dyno, especially a chassis dyno. Even the $25,000 per day EPA-certified dynos do not come this close.

Listen for obvious problems, like noticeably more clatter, or roughness under load. You could install a switch in the resistor connection to see if you can detect a difference in performance. (probably a relay near the resistor would be best -- long wires could pick up electrical noise.)

If you look at the chart in the linked article, you can see that the total range of BSFC covered is about 5%, but that you could expect a lot of clattering for the entire right half of the chart (where NOx emissions start increasing dramatically). In the range of 2 degrees one way or the other, the difference might be 2%, So your mileage might go from 40 mpg to 41 mpg, but you'd have a hard time measuring that, even on a really good dyno.

I just looked at the year of your TDI. All TDIs since about 1998 (I think) are closed loop, so you wouldn't necessarily expect any difference at all with them (in other words, the timing is controlled to keep the O2 sensor happy).

Let us know what you find out.

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#5

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

02/23/2011 8:03 PM

if your trying to improve fuel economy fooling the ecm to think its cold is the wrong way to go, a cold engine has rich fuel requirements

you need lean fuel and advancement so the opposite of what your trying to do, and you would need to alter the lambda sensor reading from the exhaust are the critical readings

also you would need to modify air intake flow and pressure (vacuum) readings

if it where me i would find a way to adjust the fuel pressure, because if the pressure is low then the fuel injected would be less than required (its a bit more complicated than that.

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#6

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

02/24/2011 12:13 AM

Leave tinkering with factory settings alone. But diesels have their efficiency sweet spot at 1600-1800 rpm, and wide open throttle around 80% of the max. power output. There the VW motor alone runs around 34% efficiency, which is darn good.

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#7

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

02/24/2011 11:03 AM

There are safer ways to pick up mileage than that resister.

Remove your windshield wipers when it is not raining. Have a very low restriction exhaust system fabricated.

Remove any exterior emblems that are in the air flow.

Keep your tires at the maximum safe pressure. When replacing tires, shop for high mileage variations.

Make sure there is as little tow in as allowable.

Dump the weight out of the car.

Look at the aero tricks done on some of the racing circuits, and copy them.

I had an older Ford 6.9 diesel that I desperately needed to get better acceleration out of. I also advanced the timing. I paid for this with early burn outs of the glow plugs. I was willing to live with this. Do you?

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#8

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

03/01/2011 2:15 AM

I've have made several inexpensive modifications 2000 TDI Jetta with the goal of improving miles per dollar.

Here are some successes that I can recommend:

1. FUEL :

Use a quality fuel with a cetane rating of at least 40.

I am in Florida most of the time, so i amup at Chevron or Shell or Exxon to get cetane of 40+... Fuel from the same company but sold in different states can have different cetane rating, so check locally. The fuel is more expensive, but additional cost is more than offset by the increase in MPG.

.

2. TIRE PRESSURE:

Maintain a high safe tire pressure... monitor and correct regularly, e.g. at every fuel refil . 90% of max side wall pressure is what i maintain.

l 3. Reduce loads on the engine...

...use the lowest viscosity recommended motor allowed for your climate.

Keep brake pads from dragging on rotors when not breaking.

.. 4. Add battery capacity, and recharge with good charger from residendial electricity daily. Wall power here costs me a little under 11¢ per KWH, which is easily 5 times less expensive that the cost of generating AC via alternator. t

As much as 20% of fuel consumtion goes to turn the alternator, so there are huge rewards to be had.

In actual mixed city frmpgeeway driving my TDi multitank average is just under 53 mpg.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

03/09/2011 2:51 PM

....speaking to the OP's actual question, I believe the idea of having the fuel temp accounted for as colder than actual, is that the calculation assumes a higher fuel density at colder temperatures, so less volume is pumped.

...

The same effect can probably be produced by moving the driver's seat back or placing progressively more still springs under the accelorator...... until it is difficult to push the accelerator down fully/ or as far as usual.

....A decrease in fuel consumption and rate of travel are probable..

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Working on my 2005 TDI Diesel to get better MPG

03/12/2011 10:05 PM

I believe that colder readings would result in richer settings from the ECM.

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