Expansion Bolts?

Toggle bolt, molly bolt, hollow wall anchor

I mean when I want to install something like electrical panel on the brick wall. What kind of bolts I should use because all I could find in here is just plastic "expansion" bolts.

I have used the anchors that Noudge79 has pictured. They work very well for anchoring in concrete and masonry.

Lately we have been using a none expansion bolt method to attach to walls. You buy a combination of a carbide drill and hardened screws. You drill the holes for the points of attachment and then screw your panel to the wall using the hardened screws. For a permanent installation it is also a good idea to use a construction adhesive in addition to the screws. This is a fast and economical method that I have used at home on brick and we used industrially to attach pipe supports to solid concrete. Honur

I dont know in your country people use hollow or solid brick but here we use hollow ones. So in a certain aspect the anchor bolts may not be applicable since it will not expan enough to the wall.

I see, just replace/rework your walls (joke only but true). It is a substandard installation using hollow blocks with out even filling mortar on it or, have yourself acquainted with masonry-> this will be most likely useful at your level

'Wall plug' is probably the best UK description.
Sometimes called a 'Rawlplug' but that's actually a manufacturers name like 'Hoover' is a vacuum cleaner.
Expansion plug is a fine description for the heavy duty ones.
Del

You may want to Google Search "Hilti". IMO, they make the best anchors in the world. They manufacture all types of anchorage devices, even ones for Concrete Masonry Units (CMU), ie, hollow core concrete masonry blocks. BTW, most of their anchors are steel, not plastic.....even some feature epoxy cartridges for use in concrete walls, structural members, and foundations.

Good luck!

GA. I agree. Hilti makes a very wide variety of fasteners for this purpose. Plus, they have a very capable customer service department, with application engineers that will go through your application with you, to make sure they get you the exact product that you need for your project.

You can use pin anchor bolts which are easy to use and hold very tight in masonry wall or RCC wall. details you can see at the sight. These bolts take good load. http://www.strawbale.com/wp-content/uploads/pin-anchor.jpg

I have used this fastener to mount everything from speakers to small TVs to hollow walls. They work great and when installed leave a threaded insert on the inside of the wall. You bolt what you need to the wall with machine screws. You can also remove and reinstall the equipment. Check specs carefully for your wall.

http://www.toggler.com/products/snaptoggle/overview.php

For solid concrete I have used this anchor to install really heavy plasma TV's on long brackets into solid concrete. Other than breaking a few lag bolts off torquing them down I never had a problem. Some have been installed for 10 years.

http://www.toggler.com/products/alligator/overview.php

These are also the only ones I use at home, I don't like doing the same job twice.

also rawl bolt

Use Redheads!

Masonary anchors are made in both male (studs) and female type.

Male anchors are usually not removable and porcet from the surface. Female anchors are flush with the surface and require an aditional bolt or stud to attach the obcect to the surface.

Some expansion anchors are designed for hollw block walls.

Care must be used in selecting anchors such as weight of the object being fastened, material of the anchor, location of the anchor, depth of the anchor opening and shear strength.

There are also ballistic anchors, where by the anchor (projectile) is 'shot' into the material (even steel).

YAR

As previously mentioned ,find out the load to be supported. If too great, and you have a hollow block wall, you may have a problem--If the load is to be carried in shear, you may need to use a steel strap, with 2 or more holes drilled and 2 or more anchors to distribute the load better, and over a larger area. Hollow tile block is notorious for being brittle in expansion loads--You can shape it with a hammer! They do make large toggle type bolts, using the butterfly system, that puts the bolt in a sort of compression, that are used also--Hope you are not located in Northern Japan, or in a seismically active area. Then all bets off. Pour the chase solid, and use structural SET epoxy and threaded rod, with washers , if necessary, and nuts..

For heavy equipment, if you have concrete wall, it is preferable to install the following ones so called double expansion Anchor.

Features of the Double Expansion Anchor:

• Double Expansion Anchor size is equal to the diameter of the machine bolt/screw to be used
• Made from Zamac, the Double Expansion Anchor is highly corrosive resistant
• Double Expansion Anchors allow for the removal or replacement of the fixture without loss of holding values
• The Double Expansion Anchor is ideal for soft masonry and base materials of questionable strength
• The Double Expansion Anchor is a one-piece design - no assembly required

Anchor Method:
The Double Expansion Anchor creates a firm hold as the two expander cones at each end of the anchor pull toward each other. High stress points are eliminated during expansion and stress is distributed throughout the full length of the Double Expansion Anchor body.

This is an interesting option, as described. Who makes them?

Double expansion anchor.com

We use a couple of products by Toggler to hang a variety of equipment. One is called an Alligator Anchor, we mostly use the Model AF6's, which is good for #8 or #10 size screws . If we have large/heavy equipment to hang, we will use the SnapToggler Model 100BA. The good thing about these anchors is that you can take the equipment down and reinstall without spending the money for another anchor. The nut/threads are held at the back side of the wall by the plastic sleave connected to the head that is flush with the front side of the wall. These are very good anchors because of their versatility and ease of use. We have also used quite a few of the Toggler Plastic Toggle Anchors. These are a little more work, but they have good holding power.

Clearly great minds think alike, see #12!

If the load is really heavy, use a backboard (3/4" plywood) and put anchors every 6 inches.Then attach your load using wood screws.Nylon anchors are actually STRONGER than steel anchors,(in brick) and are harder to pull out.(More friction) Install the anchors in mortar seams only.Brick will crack easily using expansion anchors.

The shear load is dependent on the screw size used.

There are many types of anchor bolts depending on the application ... substrate and load.

Here is one source of information

<http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-anchor-bolts.htm>

and here are some images of a selection of what is available:

<http://www.google.com.au/images?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=rXt&rls=com.google:en-US:official&q=anchor+bolts&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=b0yaTeigFY-avgPw3-zrCw&ved=0CFkQsAQ&biw=1541&bih=912>

Hi there,

Try a long bolt or threaded rod right through the wall...outside to inside - inside to outside with a large diameter washer or steel plate to spread the load.

cryogen

There is a plug of the type you have shown made by a Swiss company called Mungo. I have used these in hollow cored clay brick to hang gates using 65mm 14g hex head tec screws

They have excellent grip. They also have the benefit of working like a toggle when the cavity is large.

We have a supplier in Oz called Powers.

http://www.powers.com.au/mechanical/product.aspx?ID=1125

Let's get off the Merry-Go-Round and Cut-To-The-Chase, as we Yanks say ; follow MOBI's post #10 instructions!

Keep in touch.

Thank you for all of your reply, what I mean by heavy equipment is that I am going to install (500x800) electrical panel on the wall.

I am thinking should I use two horizontal support (attached to the wall) then install the panel on those supports or install the panel on the wall. The panel is indoor using.

I mean 500mmx800mm. :)

.............and what is the switchboard's mass?

Are the hollow bricks soft or have they been "fired," or are they besser blocks? What is minimum thickness of the brick, from the outside of the brick to the core?

Let's say 20kgs. Bricks are "fired" well. Minimum thickness is 100mm. With two layer making up 200mm of wall.

I am thinking what is the best way to do this. If it is suitable to use a plastic expansion bolts to keep it attached to the wall? Normally we do that way, but any new ideas, welcome...

To further assist you, identify which brick you have from this web site:

http://www.emcoblock.com/pdf/divisions/brick/contractors/tech-note-41-hollow-brick-masonry.pdf

Also note various anchor types from this site.

http://www.confast.com/concrete_anchor_selection.aspx

Is it reasonable to assume that the unit is about 100mm deep? If so then IMHO it seems to me that you will have both shear and tensile forces on the fastener. Tensile force due to the rotational moment created by the 25kg about 50mm from the wall.

The fastener will usually be adequate to resists these loads, with the wall being the weakest link.

BTW, does the 25kg also take into account the weight of wiring stuffed into the unit?

See my post #26. If you use the brand Mungo plug and type 17 hex head screws you will have no problems up to as much as the wall will take. I assume that you can hang gates from the walls without the bricks breaking, if so then you can certainly hang your box. You will need to use screws that are 60mm longer than the thing you are attaching to the wall.

These plugs have the advantage of working as an expansion plug first then if the cavity is too large to get grip this way the screw bites the end of the plug and collapses it so that it works as a toggle fastener.

I have used these to hang steel framed gates 1500mm wide and 50 kg.

If the wall is nice and even and flat there is no reason why you cannot use the plastic type anchors. As a matter of fact they are the recommended for fasteners for bricks.

.........or another fastener you can use in brick are the lead fasteners.

If the wall is rough or uneven you could use 3 or 4 wooden horizontal batons and then affix the switchboard to the batons using wood screws.

I have just re read my post and realised that i am not aware of the size of the anchor you have photographed. I immediately took it to be the same as the ones i use; MU 10 x 60. Which translates as 10mm dia. 60mm long plug which takes 14g ( american guage ) screws. They do come in different sizes for different screws and of course the smaller ones don't take the same sort of load.

The same company also makes nylon expansion plugs that are 100 mm long in the wall but they work only by expansion and dont have the same grip as the MU type.

You can continue to use these with confidence if you get the right size. And as i said before if you use the Swiss brand MUNGO, as your neighbours to the East don't use the same kind of plastic when they make copies.

Jimrat,

Powers which you have suggested has a good set of manuals and catalogs.

This thing is better for me now. But another issue is that I want to know from you, your site that if you also install the panels directly on the wall or you will use some kinds of strut support.

If the panels are made with mounting points, use them. If not, i couldn't suggest a solution without seeing them. all the best Jim

"Wall plug".

When mounting an electrical panel to concrete,it is advisable to use a back board between the panel and the wall to prevent corrosion of the metal in contact with the concrete.

The back board should be larger than the panel to allow for more anchors than the panel can accommodate,then the panel then can be mounted with conventional screws of appropriate size.

I have used 3/4 inch(19 mm) thick plywood for years and had no problems,even with ancient,soft and rotten brick and mortar.I simply used more anchors according to the load.

I use toggle bolts in hollow cinder block or concrete block,"Thunderstuds"* in solid concrete.I always drill the hole deeper than the stud to allow for future use of the wall or floor.Instead of grinding the stud off,simply drive it deeper to recess the threaded portion below floor level.The deeper hole does not affect the strength of the anchor,but one most use common sense to prevent driving the anchor in too far.

Holes in concrete tend to drift while drilling,and can wander from the center,unnoticed because the dust covers the hole.I always draw a large X across the center of the hole to be drilled to allow the driller to see if he drifts off while drilling.

I did a warehouse with storage racks with hundreds of anchors.6 months later they changed the floor plan and had me remove the old anchors and install the new ones.It saved many hours of labor by simply driving the anchors down instead of having to grind them off.

https://www.confast.com/products-wedge-american-wedge/