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Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/15/2011 8:42 AM

Dear all,

presently we are using VFD drive for Fan application.(from drive to motor length is <100 Mtrs). But we are shifted to this drive to some other plant .there distance from drive to motor is more than 200Mtrs. in VFD we have not considred dv/dt filter.my question is if i will install my drive for new plant . what will be the effect of my drive & Motor.

regards,

N.Ganesan

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#1

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/15/2011 10:10 AM

I am not sure about your question. Neither the dv/dt...?! Anyway,the effect will be minimal, once those devices all have some kind of feedback analysis from the pulses they generate and optimize the pulse response according with the load. or you can buy another cable with larger section to reduce the the voltage drop to a decent value.

this is not really a problem!

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#2

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/15/2011 10:23 AM

What does the VFD manufacturer or your contracted electrical engineer say about moving the drive so far away? These are the individuals that have some official standing at your facility, not us. Having said that, allow me a stab at your problem.

All of the VFD that I am familiar with operate solely in the audio frequency range. This is such a low frequency range that transmission line concerns will not be a problem with a 200M cable length. So considering then a lumped element analysis, the only concerns I have about the wiring between motor and drive is using a heavier gauge wire to minimize the added voltage drop and power loss. I would use a shielded multiconductor cable for the cable run to reduce the interference radiated by this cable. Now many a VFD work in a closed loop mode where an encoder sends back data on the operation of the motor shaft. Depending on desired motor speed and the resolution of the encoder, this could easily become a transmission line problem. But I doubt that most fans systems would worry about this. I'm sure though that the guys at NASA Ames do worry about this.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/15/2011 10:31 AM

Seems you hot linked to a site that disallows that

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Guru
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#4

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/15/2011 11:06 AM

You should be OK if you use shielded cable such as Belden LINK and calculate for voltage drop LINK

If you have to use larger than 4/0, move the VFD closer to the drive.

Cable must be routed in RGS conduit between the VFD and the drive.

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#5

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/15/2011 11:26 AM

There is a real danger to extending the lead length between the drive and the motor. There is a phenomenon called (among several terms for it) "Standing Wave Generation" in high frequency pulsed power applications such as PWM drives. Capacitive coupling between phases in the conductors causes high voltage pulses to be created and propagated along the circuit. But when these high voltage pulses reach the motor windings, the fist point of weak insulation becomes a point for a phase-to-phase short circuit. This shorting typically happens on the first turn of the windings because this is the first place where the winding insulation material is bent and stretched thinner, lowering it's dielectric strength. If you do a search on that term I put in quotes, you will get a lot of resources describing it in greater detail.

There are several ways to mitigate it. Using "Inverter Duty" motors is a first step because they start off with a higher than normal insulation level in the first place specifically for this reason. Another is to use specially designed "VFD lead cables" that are individually shielded twisted triplex conductors. That helps and is a good plan, but does not totally eliminate the problem despite the claims from cable mfrs. Some VFDs also have patented ways of altering their output PWM signal to avoid creating the problem and thus allow longer leads without added external filters, especially when used with the VFD cable. The last resort, and one that definitely works, is to consult a filter supplier to recommend a "long line filter" package for your specific application.

But before you go and buy anything new, do a very thorough investigation of what you have now in terms of the VFD's recommended maximum length, the type of cable in place and the motor insulation design. You may or may not need added filtering.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/15/2011 11:39 AM

Wow, you mean that to make a real recommendation you actually have to know what parts you have. I thought we were here just to absolve managers from consulting a valid authoritative individual.

All kidding aside, GA.

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#8
In reply to #5

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/16/2011 1:45 AM

GA

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/16/2011 1:57 AM

GA.

On smallish drives we have often added about a 3% 3 phase inductor at the drive on the feed to the motor. Works OK for V/Hz appication but not recommended in general for Flux vector control.

The manuals for the VFD will spell out the installation and cables and filters recommended for their drive.

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#7

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/15/2011 12:26 PM

Besides banning AM radio reception in whole Southern India and SERIOUSLY increased losses nothing else to it.

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#10

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/18/2011 4:34 AM

The distance between the VFD terminals and the the Motor terminals should not be too high. Otherwise; the link between the VFD and the Motor; acts a transmission line; and results in transient spike voltages at the motor terminals. The peak of this voltages may reach approximately 2000 V for the motor rated voltage of 415 V AC; when the cable length is belond 100m. Even though the duration of this spike is very less; because it repeats itself at the carier frequency of the pulse width modulation; in the range of kHz; the effect will be destroy the part of the winding; close to the termination. Motor is more likely to fail due to iinsulation failure of the lead cables; slot mouth failure.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Cable Length Restriction for Drives

04/21/2011 5:10 AM

I am glad that you brought this issue to the discussion!

This in deed can be a problem... I was assuming that those cables had the necessary impedance adaptation.

but if they not, any way it can be fixed...there are things called filters, and the responsible can design them to "earth" potentially dangerous harmonics!

or so I think...?

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