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Voltage vs. Current

04/20/2011 1:35 AM

hi frns,we all know that bjt is a current controlled device.for eg. in common emitter configuration the base drive controls the functioning of the device.but my question is how can we differentiate between a current controlled and voltage controlled device??its the emitter-collector voltage that controls the base current.its possible for us to control the base drive by changing this voltage..right??so cant we say that bjt is a voltage controlled device..please help me out..

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#1

Re: voltage vs current

04/20/2011 3:39 AM

I'd say it's a current controlled device, but it has a voltage threshold which needs to be overcome before it will operate.
But as an emitter follower, I'd agree it appears to be voltage controlled, but really this is because the emitter resistor is limiting the current by lifting the emitter voltage which starts to turn off the device.
The easiest way to show this is to get a BJT (bipolar junction transistor) and an FET (Field effect transistor).
If you operate them with a voltage source on the base or gate with just a collector (source?) resistor the BJT will will blow it's base emiter junction whereas the FET will be perfectly happy with nothing limiting the gate current.
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#2

Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/20/2011 2:13 PM

Yes, 2krishnanunnis, BJTs are transconductance devices (voltage in, current out), just like tubes and FETs, which means they are first and foremost, voltage controlled.

To answer your question: How to tell?, I'd say the physics and formulas are the key. In the case of the transistor we have the solid-state physics resulting in the rigorous Ebers-Moll formulas, with their precise prediction for collector current IC from VBE, namely IC = IS (eVBE/VT -1), as against the vague squishy β or HFE gain, if we try to use current for biasing, etc. Just because you can successfully bias a few BJT circuits with current doesn't meant they're current-controlled devices.

Is a long-tail pair differential-amplifier going to work with current control to the two base inputs? No way. Is a cascode-connected stage going to work with current control to the base? No, of course not, it can't. Is an emitter-follower driving a common-mode amplifier going to work with current control to the emitter-follower's base? No. How about the operation of a current mirror? Hah!

The gain of common-emitter stage is RL/re, where re = k T / q IC, in a tightly-controlled fashion. re = 25 ohms at 1mA, and scaling inversely to current, 250 ohms at 100uA, 2.5 ohms at 10mA. Very useful to remember. Where is base current in this scene? How does it help you determine the gain of a common-emitter amplifier? Nada.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/21/2011 3:29 AM

would u please explain me the difference between current control and voltage control..also voltage source and current source??i dont understand how we can differentiate them.without voltage there is no current and vice versa???

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#4
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Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/21/2011 4:49 AM

When you're designing things: it's horses for courses. It's often easier to take a stock circuit and then roughly work out the values of the base resistors (to control the current) dependant on the Hfe .

But ultimately there is a logarithmic relationship between the base emitter voltage and the collector current.

Winfield Hill knows and understands this on a level which is several orders of magnitude better than I do.

You just have to keep working at it and allow your understanding to grow gradually.

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/21/2011 9:21 AM

In a nut shell (maybe some will not agree...??):

The higher the input impedence of the device, the more it is a voltage controlled device. (ansd vice-versa).

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#11
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Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/21/2011 1:46 PM

That is about 6 questions!

  1. No current = no voltage! Not true, electrostatic electricity physics finds you can put charge on plates in a vacuum. The voltage stays there indefinitely. Your computer probably has its "bios" in a memory which is basically charged insulated layers - memory will be held for decades. No voltage = no current! But a superconducting coil at very low temperature can carry big currents indefinitely with no voltage drop.
  2. Current and voltage control? Well, one can have a cathode ray tube in which the spot is moved in the X direction by magnetic coils - movement proportional to coil current and in the Y direction by electrostatic deflection plates - movement proportional to voltage between the plates. That is good voltage control and good current control of spot position in one device.
  3. An ideal voltage source is one which keeps the same voltage, however much current flows into it or out of it. Real voltage sources can do good approximation to this at 10s of amperes.
  4. An ideal current source is one which keeps the same current output, however much one changes the voltage of its output terminals. Real current sources, made with pentode valves or FET transistors can be close to ideal.
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#5

Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/21/2011 5:54 AM

In a voltage controlled device like a vacuum tube or field effect transistor, very little current is drawn (high input impedance). The output current is proportional to input voltage. A bipolar (junction) transistor has a low input impedance and the input voltage increases slowly with increasing current like a forward biased diode (log curve). The output current is proportional to the input current. This ratio is called hfe or ß.

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#6
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Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/21/2011 7:11 AM

Yes, Rixter is correct. The circuit configurations referred to by Winfred Hill modify the input impedance to give the impression that the 'device' is voltage controlled. In effect, there is still current flowing in a BJT in an input stage - it is just a lot smaller and linearised and amplified by the rest of the ciruit.

Steve.

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#8
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Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/21/2011 9:23 AM

Sorry you've completely missed the point. If you look at the design of a BJT current mirror:-

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_mirror#Basic_bipolar_transistor_mirror

You will see that it depends entirely on the fact that the collector current is related to the base emitter voltage.

An analysis of the long paired differential BJT amplifier will show the same thing:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_amplifier#Long-tailed_pair

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#10
In reply to #6

Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/21/2011 11:29 AM

Hey, that's Winfield, not Winfred! Anyway, the point is that one is predictable, and the other is not. So for manufacture-able designs, where beta can be all over the map, the best circuits are engineered not to depend on beta, and these circuits work equally well for a range of beta values.

Take for example the popular BC850, whose beta may range from 110 to 800 at 2mA. You can add a suffix letter to the part, A, B or C, to specify selected parts with one of three reduced beta ranges. For example the BC850B has beta from 200 to 450. But 200 to 450, covering 125% change, is still a pretty large range to live with if you're using beta-controlled designs.

What's even worse is that at any given instant your favorite distributor may not have the particular suffix you've specified in stock, for the package you're using, etc. If for example, you had a voltage-driven design that could work with beta from 200 to 800, then your purchasing officer could buy either the B or C suffixes, and arguably the design would be working better anyway, since it didn't depend on beta to begin with.

The difference in design approaches is not hard to master. The voltage-based methods are what we teach in our best-selling book, AoE, which is meant as much for newcomers as for skilled engineers.

As a young engineer struggling with my circuit designs in the mid 60's (remember the h parameters?), a wise experienced teacher sat me down with a single sheet of paper for 30 minutes and preached the value of Ebers-Moll and re. What's the gain of a common-emitter amplifier stage? Easy, RL / re. And re is 25 ohms at 1mA.

Oops, re = VT/IC = 25mV/IC, and changes with current, causing distortion? OK add a degenerating resistance, RE - now the gain is RL / RE+re, and I can quickly calculate my gain and predict the distortion level for my choices of RE. Try that kind of easy analysis with the β approach.

So I changed my design approach and suddenly things start working as predicted. That is to say, I could reliably engineer instead of empirically-develop my designs. I could also safely do more complex designs.

Consider circuit A. Its input impedance Zin = β * RE+re in parallel with R1 and R2, and the base current is IC / β. A current-control-based design will stipulate a high beta and choose high values for R1 and R2, increasing Zin. It'll likely wink at the base current Ib.

By contrast, a voltage-control design will assume a horrible low beta and a high Ib, and choose low values for R1 and R2, decreasing Zin. In this fashion voltage-control is enforced, and design predictability is enhanced.

modelaero said we "modify the input impedance to give the impression of voltage control," but he should have said we lower the input impedance to force voltage control. But this doesn't mean one has to live with the lowered impedance.

For example, consider our common-emitter amplifier, circuit A, where we lowered the biasing resistances so as not to depend on beta. But we could instead use circuit B, and add an emitter-follower transistor running at say 1/10th the IC current (low enough not to add significant voltage noise, en), thereby allowing us to increase the bias resistances by 10x, without sacrificing voltage control. The cost? one transistor and one resistor. But we get Zin back to where circuit A might have been, or maybe even 2 or 3 times better. And we keep our goal of good engineering predictability.

I have to admit that the voltage-based approach often forces one to use more parts, often an extra transistor here and there. But the aforementioned BC850 only costs 2.6¢ in quantity, so what are you complaining about?

Now, I implied and showed in circuit A that a beta-based design will have poor bias stability, but we know that's not always true. That's because beta-centric designers can't and shouldn't use circuit A, they use circuit C.

Instead of a tiny 50-ohm emitter resistor for a 1mA, they'll use 1k, etc., for a volt or so of voltage drop, and thereby restore bias-point predictability to their circuit. To get the lost gain back they'll add a big ugly electrolytic capacitor with the 50-ohm degenerating resistor.

Which circuit do you prefer? I prefer B with its extra transistor, to C with its ugly BFC capacitor. And I'll bet the BFC costs more than 2.6¢.

And, hah! As a bonus, our preferred circuit B has a greater output swing.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Voltage vs. Current

04/21/2011 9:37 AM

GA This is the correct and simple way of understanding the concept - high input impedance = voltage control, low(er) input impedance = current control.

From the supply side, a current source is simply a high output impedance voltage source, so as the load varies the current changes very little. (High being >>10X the intended load) Example: a simple ohm meter creates a calibrated current through the load resistor being measured and the meter display reacts to the voltage drop across the load resistor.

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2krishnanunnis (1); 67model (1); LAA_Lucke (1); modelaero (1); Randall (2); Rixter (1); U NO WHO (1); user-deleted-1105 (1); Winfield Hill (2)

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