Scope for a Stevens M416

This is like asking,"What's your favorite color?"

Everybody will have an opinion, and since you have no idea of the level of competence of ANY OF US, you will be no better off than before.

Visit a gun dealer, tell him what your budget is and let him advise you and install the scope and bore sight it for you.

Remember, always assume every gun you touch is loaded until you have checked the weapon yourself. And, always point the gun in a safe direction.

It depends what your goal is for the rifle. If you want something that just looks good hanging on the wall, go for the biggest and cheapest scope you can buy.

Tasco is pretty much the economy line.

That being said, the rifle is an antique and probably best kept in original condition. Nice rifle, but I would not try to make it into something modern.

I have two .22 rifles. One is a Ruger 1022 with a scope I use for teaching new shooters. The second is an Anschutz .22 competition rifle with iron sights.

The Anschutz will shoot far more accurately, even with iron sights. For serious shooting or learning more advanced shooting I would not encourage using a scope on a .22 since the shooting distances are less than 100 yards. However, that is just me. I enjoy shooting at 600 yards with iron sights (obviously with a larger caliber rifle). I personally find scopes boring, but your desires/goals may be different.

"I personally find scopes boring, but your desires/goals may be different." I agree, I prefer the peepsight for a .22 rifle like this.

I am taking a hint from our Original Poster's username, Blindkev (If I am reading more into your username that there is, I apologize to you Blindkev). There may well be a reason there is a desire to scope this rifle.

Here is an M416 fitted with a Unertl (a 10X Target I think):

This will probably blow your budget apart, but Unertl is a very nice piece of glass.

Depends on you use of the gun. If your designs is to look at it as a collector find one of the era it was manufactured. Is it stamped Property of the USA? Those are worth a little more and you don't want to make any modifications to the gun to make a scope fit.

I'm more of a pistol guy myself, so I'm in agreement with AH that iron sights are preferable because they are the lowest common denominator so if you can learn to use them effectively you can shoot anything anyone hands you. But YMMV...

A 4X is plenty for .22. At the range of a .22 the 4X has plenty of magnification. Like has been said already though, the end-use will determine what route you should go. What brand you get just depends on how much you want to spend.

Thanks for all the comments! The idea was to take the 22 to the range with the scope, cheap ammo, neat looking, do some semi small/tight groups, shoot it at 5o yards with the scope, and hopefully impress the girls. A friend recommended the BSA Sweet 22. It is designed specifically for .22 rifles and comes with three different turrets based on bullet weight. Should you want to switch bullet weight, you (theoretically) don't have to re-sight it, you just change the appropriate turret. They run around $100 which fits the budget.

If you have not shot much before the best scope in the world won't help. ;-) Don't forget you will also need to sight the scope in.

Have fun and be safe!

P.S. Pick up some of those orange clays they use for skeet shooting and lay them on the berm. They make for fun plinking, too.

I doubt you will get "semi small/tight groups" with "cheap ammo" - even as close as 50 yards.

Have you gauged the bore, checked the bedding and bolt head space, to find out if it will shoot accurately at all? before you spend more money.

I.e. no amount of scope will help a dud rifle, running junk; and all your plans to "impress" will likely 'backfire'.

I didn't guage the bore out, but I did use my bore light and my calibrated eyeballs. It looks good. I always carry a bore light to gun shows and range days. They are small enough to fit in your man bag. I also used the oily rag test with my finger in the breech. If you shove the patch down the bore and then pull it out, it should suck air if its fairly tight with a 1 inch patch. Also, if you run the patch down the bore without tightening the rod all the way, the patch should rotate and tighten up the cleaning rod. It does on this rifle.

Remember these old rifles fired 22 lead ammo, non corrosive. The ammo used in a lot of old guns (especially European and commie) was corrosive and that would eat up the chamber quickly if not cleaned properly. Most of the 22 ammo back then was also simple lead ball ammo, not the jacketed high power that folks use today. The high power will shoot out the barrel quicker than standard velocity ammo, but with a 22 you're talking a whole lot of ammo would have to go down the throat.

Last but not least, I checked out the barrel crown right at the end of the barrel to make sure the cleaning rods didn't eat up the crown and make it out of balance. The bedding in this thing, and according to my book on MilSpec 22s was only a machined and burned stock bedding. 22's don't need a fancy epoxy bedding as long as the mounting screws and tang screws are all tight and the wood is proud on the screw holes. Non-Proud wood is where the wood has not been sanded and or shrunk below the metal edges. That will cause sloppiness. Old stocks have a tendancy to shrink as they age, unless treated correctly with ample slatherings of Boiled Linseed oil. Others will espouse more amateurish wood protectors as lemon oil and paste waxy things, but the army TMs all say "BLO". It replaces the natural oils that have dried out of a stock.

So, after looking at the bore, examining the bedding and checking out the parts, I did arrive at one bummer. The front barrel band screw was stripped out at the tighter end of the screw. It holds the thing fine, but not tight, so alas Poor Yorick, for the want of a screw this gun is not a real dime shooter. In comes Numrich. They still have original M416 parts they bought from CMP back in the 70s. So, salvation can be found with a pilgrimage to the Numrich warehouse. Anyway I ordered the barrel band and will replace it. Then we're back to match shooting.

Um - the original purpose of a barrel band was to resist damage to the mounting screws from rough, or accidentally 'non-handling' (read dropping)

If the stock is warped at all, the barrel band will pull the barrel off line, stressing the mounts. Given this rifle has a 'match barrel', I'd be very cautious of "but not tight".

It should in fact be set/shimmed, 'neutral floating' - not 'holding'.

Another thing; "commie" (Russian) ammo comes in 'brilliant' (Olympic/Nordic competition 'standard', best .22 in the world, by miles) to 'frigging pathetic'.

A 'good quality' US ammo is Winchester. I wouldn't fall below that if I'm 'tuning' a rifle.

I've never come across .22 LR in jacketed form - plated maybe - but not jacketed.

Even so, ballistic lead ain't pure soft lead, it's an alloy, and wears a barrel. In a barrel of that period, if you can't see broach striations, it may be worn out - i.e. 'shiny' or 'optical' tells you zip, unless it's a case of seeing half a hole at the other end.

I was under the impression that it was the burnt powder that was corrosive.

Nope, it was the Mercury Fulminate in the primer that was hygroscopic and absorbed moisture in the air and formed a very corrosive mess in the bore, particularly if it was a steel alloy with appreciable nickel in it (you got low melting point cracking on top of the pitting.). Lead Azide was used for a long time as a non-corrosive replacement, but I'm not sure what is being used in the "lead free" ones these days.

So, which is it, the bullet or the charge?

The charge includes the primer.

the primer. the propellant is nothing but guncotton or a derivative. the bullet is pretty much inert in this case too.

I thought the real culprit in the corrosive ammo was the salts that are created after you shoot it - potassium and sodium chloride. I also know if you aren't damn quick about cleaning the barrel after shooting the corrosive stuff you'll be sorry. I let my Yugo 24/47 sit a couple of days before cleaning it and my patches were coming out brown.

If you don't clean - but corrosion between shots during a day on the range, is not really an issue compared to balls rushing up barrels.

Problem with a lot of the Russian ammo is that it has steel casings in lieu if brass ones that tend to really mess up AR-15 firing pins......and the cheaper ammo is corrosive as all hell. I do understand that Wolf and a few other premium Russian ammo manufacturers have somewhat rectified that problem.

Some peeps I know swear by the stuff, while some others won't even touch Russian ammo. The ones usually using it are swinging AK's, SKS's and AKM's, not the AR platforms.

From the complaints I've seen, it's not so much the firing pins, it's the extractors. They weren't meant to handle the steel cases and they break frequently. I was thinking about building an AR-15 in 7.62X39 at one time and that was the common complaint I kept hearing. The reason for the 7.62X39 was all that cheap Eastern block steel cased surplus on the market, so that kind of killed that idea. I imagine someone has probably cured that problem though, everyone and his freakin' bro make an AR-15 on after market parts these days.

Yeah, they'll do a number on an extractor as well.

If you're looking to purchase an AR-15 there are several manufacturers in the USA that make a damn good rifle at a reasonable cost, such as:

Bushmaster (in Maine...I love mine), Stag Arms (located a stone's throw from me near Danbury CT), Spike's Tactical (from Florida....built to order....an incredibly gorgeous AR-15!), Central Missouri Machine Gun (CMMG), Rock Island Armory, DPMS, Colt, etc etc.

I've shot all of the above and find them to be very good rifles......some reasonably priced, while some are not.

CMMG for instance specializes in rifles chambered in .22LR caliber.....the price of .22LR ammo is about a 1/10th of .223 NATO ammo....so keep that in mind. Some others are now manufacturing 6.5mm ammo, like Stag Arms, since Horady has now taken up producing that caliber.

Now I'm saving up my Pennies to soon purchase a KRISS Vector CRB/SO chambered in .45 ACP......one hell of a kick-ass rifle, with a whole lot of stopping punch! Try it you'll like it!!!!

Redefining the definition of cover, Springfield's SOCOM 16 chambered in .308 NATO.

I like! I'm glad that they brought back a classic with the necessary mods!!!

The muzzle brake, I am told, makes this rifle as easy to shoot as the M1a Match rifle, which is my competition rifle, but maneuverable as a carbine. Reasonably accurate, too.

I think some of these are used by the Special Forces.

Recent pic of my Bushmaster XM15.....

you might find this product intriguing Capt. it does not require a tax stamp to own either.

http://www.slidefiresolutions.com/Products.html

I've had nothing but problems shooting Winchester .22LR in my Ruger 22 and Remington 22 rifles. Ditto regarding problems shooting Winchester .22LR ammo in my Bushmaster XM15 (AR-15A3) rifle (I normally shoot 5.56mm x 45mm NATO FMJ, but do shoot .22LR at the range when I use the CMMG .22LR conversion carrier bolt). Usually I encounter around a dozen bad cartridges out of every 200 rounds when I use Winchester ammo.....from misfires to stove-piping. Seems to me that their quality control is somewhat lacking the past few years, especially when it comes to primers. Others in our gun club now stay way from Winchester ammo altogether.

I suggest that you try one of the following manufacturer's of .22LR ammo:

Hornady, Remington (American Eagle), CCI (from Idaho), and my favorite re-loaded ammo Bitterroot Valley Ammo Co. (BVAC). BVAC can be found through "CheaperThan Dirt.com"for a very good price IF available.....usually it is back-ordered.

Happy shooting to all!

Reloaded .22LR? didn't think that was possible.

Opppsss sorry, I meant reloaded .223 cal (5.56 NATO) by BVAC. I'm not sure if they even do .22 LR.....doubt it

I had a feeling that was what you meant......

You would "impress the girls" much more by shooting tight groups with iron sights!

Obviously since you already have scope blocks mounted on your rifle then you are somewhat limited on what type and size (scope barrel diameter) you can purchase. It's not like you have an AR-15 with a flat-top mounted Picatinny or Weaver rail where you can mount a whole host of different sights, including red dot halographic, ACOG, etc.

At $300 maximum spending cap you're limiting yourself to what you can purchase, but there are some very good scopes available for under that spending cap.....just be careful what you buy!

I would strongly suggest that you visit opticsplanet.com and look through their huge selection of rifle scopes. Pick a few and read the reviews thoroughly to see how others rate the scopes. Then after doing your homework go visit a rifle club and ask a few members there what they think of your choices...it's all pros and cons now.

I have a Bushmaster XM15 (AR-15A3 with detachable carry handle & flat-top Picatinny rail)....I've purchased a few different rifle scopes + flip-up iron rear sights from opticsplanet for it, from an ACOG style Bushnell Trophy red dot/green dot tactical scope to a Mueller red dot reticle/halographic. You will have a hard time finding anyone that beats their prices & free shipping! I've put a lot of $$$ into this black gun and the former owner won't even recognize it now.....

Forget the TASCO scope as it's a bit on the cheapo end. You'll find some very good scopes at the aforementioned site made by Mueller Optical, Redfield, Leopold, Weaver, Nikon, Pentax, Bushnell, etc. that may fit your budget. Just make sure you find a scope that will fit your scope rings otherwise you are going to need o purchase the properly-sized rings and make a trip to the local gunsmith....that won't be a cheap visit either!!!!

Good luck with your "scope hunting"!

You do not want a very high power scope because it restricts your field of view, especially on a .22LR platform in which the effective range is relatively short anyway. a 4X should be more than enough magnification. Check out what MidwayUSA has in stock, you might find a bargain. they have some 4X Tasco, Barska, and BSA scopes under $10. I've bought from MidwayUSA for some time now and have nothing but good things to say about them. Brownell's is another good mail-order outfit too as is Cheaper Than Dirt.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?tabId=10&categoryId=11397&categoryString=657***11392***&sortBy=RetailPrice%20asc

Thank god most of the gun-toting loonies are in the US. It's bad enough living in a UK city without the "right to carry arms"

Over the years I've assisted in the destruction of 5 tons of guns and ammunition, good riddance to them.

And your home invasion robberies went through the roof when you did, hope you are happy with the blood of innocents on your hands.

I think that your post adds nothing to the original poster's question and simply appears as if you are throwing gasoline on a fire.

While you may satisfied that you do not have the right keep a .22 rifle, the poster does have that right and intends to exercise that right. What this boils down to is I don't have a problem with you having an opinion, but I do have a problem with attempting to turn a legitimate discussion into a flame war.

If you have nothing to add to this discussion, why did you bother posting?

What's your point?

it was sarcasm. and besides Loughtner SHOULD NOT have been able to purchase his weapons, Dupnik KNEW he was nuts and violent and did not pass that information on to NICS.

Personally I wouldn't go much beyond a 8x scope, Its a .22 and any bigger scope for distance is a waste of money.

Yah, and all those gun laws forbidding you to carry them or possess them wont stop someone from robbing you at gunpoint and possibly shoot you as well. Laws forbiddong guns only stop the law abiding citizens and fuels the Black Market for guns as that's the only way they can be obtained, furthering crime. Do you think a criminal cares whether there are gun laws or not???? Do you think the terrorist that blew up the tunnels cared that there were laws against bombs? If criminals had to worry whether I carried a gun or not and might shoot them, there would be a lot less personal crimes against individuals. That's why robber used to rob trains and banks, as that was worth the risk of being killed, but not $2 bucks in someones pocket.

After you work it all out paint it red and you can look much faster

Maybe this will help

http://www.chuckhawks.com/scope_magnification_rifle_caliber.htm

Ahhhh, don't cha just love it when there's an attempt to legislate USA gun laws + personal & Constitutionally-granted freedoms from afar (offshore that is)?

TonyS, you just stepped into a hornet's nest dude.....I take strong exception to your grandiose statements! You have no right whatsoever to apply generalist labels to Americans bearing arms. A great majority of gun owners here are not "gun-toting loonies", but rather law-abiding citizens......it's the gun-toting nut cases and the criminals who obtain guns illegally or circumvent the gun permitting process that are the scary ones that are also capable of going on shooting sprees, armed robberies, and worse, killing innocents, and not the law-abiding gun owner.

Take that as a slap to the face with a white glove......10 paces, turn, and then shoot with your wimpy pea shooter! LOL, or do you prefer paint balls?

As an US Army combat Vet (twice) and Patriot, I firmly believe in the US Constitution 2nd amendment as a God given right to bear arms. I owe guns for number of reasons: 1). plinking in the woods, 2). target shooting at the gun club range, or in the woods, 3). for self-defense and against home-invasion (has happened here twice at our residence....and owning that weapon of choice resulted in me holding the perpetrator at bay until the police came and arrested his bloody ass), 4). protection of my family and home, 5). hunting wildlife, and finally, 6). because I can under the US Constitution! This is not a quasi-socialist country (like the UK, France, and the former USSR, etc etc etc), and never will be!

I agree, 99 times out of 100 it is people that would have committed the crime regardless if you yourself were allowed to possess firearms. Those that commit crimes in forethought, rarely use a gun legally obtained. With those that do it is usually out of passion, heat of the moment.I am not saying the wild west was not dangerous, but less crimes were committed against ordinary citizens when all were armed. You more likely to have your house broken into or be robbed if they know you are unarmed.

Don't forget that in the UK, you have no right to defend yourself either. if some miscreant kicks in your door and attempts to kill you or rape your wife or kid, you do not have the right to kill him or even harm him. HE has more rights than you do in your own home in the UK. Yeah, that is a sane policy isn't it?

Why by a scope at all? If you can't shoot well without a scope, I doubt a scope will add much to your ability. If it's for looks, your barking up the wrong tree. Use the money to purchase another weapon; you can't have to many weapons these days ---------- especially with the present Administration. If you buy a scope, spend some money and get a good one. Never buy junk or cheap optics, you'll never truly be happy with that kind of crap. Good Luck!

You, obviously, have not bothered to follow the OP's reasoning for having a scope in the first place, but have also managed to inject a political slant into the thread where none is necessary.