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Pre-Insulated Black Steel Chilled Water Underground Pipe

05/30/2011 4:26 PM

We are using HDPE Pre-insulated black steel chilled water underground pipe in the project. The pipe joints are welded and the the insulation at the joints is field applied and the copper trace wire that comes embedded in the insulation is continued in the field at the joints by a small piece of wire that connects with the trace wire in both adjacent pipe sections. Can someone give details about how the continuity of the field applied trace wire is checked while the piping is being laid and how does it finally detect leaks and what happens if there is any discontinuity in this wire?

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#1

Re: Pre-insulated black steel chilled water underground pipe

05/30/2011 4:58 PM

Have you contacted the manufacturer? Has no one in your organization ever used this before?

If you have done some research on this it would help to know, so it isn't repeated.

My guess is that if the wire is broken, you have no leak detection. You may have an indication of where the break is, if the detection system is installed properly. I'm also guessing that the capacitance change of the (intact) wire would detect leaks. (Look at capacitive leak detection)

What have you done so far?

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#2

Re: Pre-insulated black steel chilled water underground pipe

05/30/2011 6:10 PM

The manufacturer of the pipe must have instructions available on how to splice the trace wire and how to test it.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Pre-insulated black steel chilled water underground pipe

05/31/2011 5:54 AM

Why bother reading the directions and searching for an answer when typing all your questions in CR4 is faster?

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Pre-insulated black steel chilled water underground pipe

05/31/2011 6:50 AM

The project is far away and the manufacturer is not in sight or contact is the reason of putting this post in the forum.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Pre-insulated black steel chilled water underground pipe

05/31/2011 7:54 AM

Shaking head in disbelief, he writes:

The wires will need to be connected. Soldering is best. Each connection, if not properly done MAY look like a leak to the detection system. It remains a mystery to me how the thing will ever work if no one on the job knows how to install or start up the system, or how it is supposed to work.

Good luck. Where is this project?

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#8
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Re: Pre-insulated black steel chilled water underground pipe

05/31/2011 3:57 PM

Engineering intuition combined with the feedback from this Forum might enable us to put two plus two together!

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Pre-insulated black steel chilled water underground pipe

05/31/2011 4:01 PM

Unfortunately, in this case, 2+2 may well=3.

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#6

Re: Pre-Insulated Black Steel Chilled Water Underground Pipe

05/31/2011 8:40 AM

SarmatTermoEngineering
"To install signal system at the joints you should use special crimping sleeves which provide splicing of signal wires."

Acceptable resistance of assembled wires of ROM system…………not less than 200 Om for 5 km. of pipeline
Excess of acceptable value shows that wires have been improperly connected.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Pre-Insulated Black Steel Chilled Water Underground Pipe

05/31/2011 11:08 AM

Was just curious, what is your specific procedure for checking resistance in very long wire between two points say "5 km" apart?

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Pre-Insulated Black Steel Chilled Water Underground Pipe

05/31/2011 4:05 PM

I didn't write the specs, I just copied and pasted from their website.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Pre-Insulated Black Steel Chilled Water Underground Pipe

05/31/2011 4:13 PM

Thanks. Reason I asked question was I had a contractor tell me a few years ago that wires sometimes don't survive e.g. pipe pulls though the ground, as little wires generally and understandably have less pulling strength than much bigger, thicker pipelines (and my little multimeter leads won't span 5 km!)

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#14
In reply to #10

Re: Pre-Insulated Black Steel Chilled Water Underground Pipe

06/01/2011 7:18 AM

Information about any links/website(s) about the art and science of trace wires, how they work and the instruments that go with it would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: Pre-Insulated Black Steel Chilled Water Underground Pipe

05/31/2011 11:33 PM

This spec seems to be improperly written. I think they mean the the total resistance should be not more than 200 ohms per 5 km. (Not "om"s, unless mantra chanters constitute an electrical resistance.)

The resistance of the wire should be known from tables. If you measure the resistance of two wire lengths, and subtract the wire resistance, you will get the resistance of the joint between the two wires. Then simply add it all up. (Your test leads will each need to be just a bit over one wire length between splices.)

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Pre-Insulated Black Steel Chilled Water Underground Pipe

06/01/2011 7:09 AM

I think it was a typo as well. I just merely cut and pasted. It took me all of 3 minutes to search and post my response. What's scary is to consider that someone bid and won this contract with no idea of what they needed to install and test this system correctly. How can you bid a job if you have no idea if you need special tools or equipment in order to install the lines in accordance with the manufacturers recommendations and procedures?

I just finishing writing a job proposal last night. I had 25 hours of research in to this project before I ever hit the cloud and created a formal written document. I do my homework down to the last detail before I submit a bid or order a single screw. Maybe others do it differently.

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Pre-Insulated Black Steel Chilled Water Underground Pipe

06/05/2011 6:32 AM

good question???????????????????

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