Previous in Forum: Pipe Wrenches   Next in Forum: Mig Welder Update
Close
Close
Close
6 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru
Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Borrego Springs
Posts: 2636
Good Answers: 62

Inviting Discussion on "Dealing with Complexity"

06/11/2011 10:52 AM

As a former systems engineer for a civilian avionics manufacturer, we understood our position to be a "spanning" function, in which one analysed all the impacts of design decisions rather than localized functions.

This is similar (I think) to the Computer Science definition.

The function was generally provided by more senior engineers with area expertise; and was facilitated by the requirements from the airspace, the operations, the hardware, the box certification, HIRF, lightning, latency, etc being driven and decomposed to the lowest level of design. So once you had a few years in, you began to know the aircraft as a single complexity whose lowest functions impacted the ability to meet requirements at the highest levels.

Having recently joined the Military Industrial complex, I find new terminology and concepts that give me pause, and I invite others comments.

I find the DOD and the manufacturer's using the term 'systems of systems', and Systems Engineering is it's own field of engineering.

In my lengthy background working with some very complex systems, we grew these people internally. While never stated, every engineer was on track toward systems engineer while working an area of speciality.

Now I find organizations and individuals who never worked in any speciality being recruited straight into "Systems Engineering", and upper level degrees available to the Bachelor holder without any job experience.

Having watched these people struggle with requirements decomposition devoid of technical knowledge, costing exercises absent experience, trade studies and decisions coming to silly conclusions; I have my doubts with this industry approach.

The question I suppose; does this reflect others experience, and who can share more successful experiences and approaches?

Looking forward to responses.

Emmett

__________________
"If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - Member

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Trantor
Posts: 5363
Good Answers: 647
#1

Re: Inviting Discussion on "Dealing with Complexity"

06/11/2011 11:08 AM

Been there somewhat. I think it is partly an attempt to save costs; experienced people cost more. (Of course, you get what you pay for.) I think too that the upper management in aerospace companies have (very wrongly) bought into the idea that DOORS software will handle your systems engineering for you, so you can now just fill the cubicles with warm bodies that know how to click a box on a requirements checklist.

__________________
Whiskey, women -- and astrophysics. Because sometimes a problem can't be solved with just whiskey and women.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1056
Good Answers: 88
#2

Re: Inviting Discussion on "Dealing with Complexity"

06/11/2011 2:13 PM

If I understand your concern is about the efficiency of this industry approach i.e. It's bigger tendency to 'abstraction' is less efficient than traditional approach. True, but in more complex systems specially when confidenciality of development and easier ($) upgradability of the EXISTING system is a must, IMHO it can be justified. S.M.

__________________
Life is complex. It has a real part and an imaginary part.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1170
Good Answers: 153
#3

Re: Inviting Discussion on "Dealing with Complexity"

06/12/2011 5:46 AM

Does this problem stem from an ex. cold war security mindset? In civilian life many people seeing the whole picture is considered an asset. In military thinking many people seeing the whole picture is considered a security threat.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Borrego Springs
Posts: 2636
Good Answers: 62
#4

Re: Inviting Discussion on "Dealing with Complexity"

06/12/2011 12:37 PM

I was trying to avoid my natural 'old fart' reaction to this trend, and instead try to figure out how to make it 'work'. Success stories?

__________________
"If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!"
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1056
Good Answers: 88
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Inviting Discussion on "Dealing with Complexity"

06/13/2011 12:34 PM

Have no success stories to share but I'm sure espionage history has given many related disaster stories. S.M.

__________________
Life is complex. It has a real part and an imaginary part.
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#6

Re: Inviting Discussion on "Dealing with Complexity"

06/14/2011 4:20 PM

I can't help making the comparison... I recently viewed the documentary "No End In Sight." That is basically exhibit "A" for what you are describing. And guess what? Both have the commonality of "The Military-Industrial Complex." (I have always found it interesting that Military is listed first in that compound word. Does it possibly portend who/what is actually driving the machine?)

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Register to Reply 6 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); edignan (1); jhhassociates (1); SimpleMind (2); Usbport (1)

Previous in Forum: Pipe Wrenches   Next in Forum: Mig Welder Update

Advertisement