Previous in Forum: Help on 5th Harmonic Tuned Filter Required   Next in Forum: Short Circuit Calculation
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 102

Parallel 2 Transformer

06/23/2011 12:59 AM

Dear All,

What will happen if I do parralel 2 transformer A & B with spec. as follow ;

Transf.-A : 20/0.38kV 2MVA 6% Dyn11

Transf.-B : 20/0.40kV 2MVA 6% Dyn11

Thanks.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#1

Re: Parralel 2 transformer

06/23/2011 1:35 AM

Sounds like a 20 volt discrepancy to me, with the higher voltage taking on more than 50% of the load.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#2

Re: Parralel 2 transformer

06/23/2011 3:03 AM

Why on earth would you want to parallel two dissimilar transformers? One will take the bulk of the load while the other is happily just adding circulating currents.

Transformers of that size will normally have off load tap changing, use them to balance the voltage first.

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 102
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Parralel 2 transformer

06/23/2011 5:46 AM

Dear Tony,

Thank a lot for you "usefull comments".

Some circumstance put you in the position where you dont become your self, but professionally you have to. This is the earth, not heaven or hell !

Imagine below single line ;

Initially both transformers T1&T2 has the same 380V output, but due to further circumstance you are asked to level up the output to 400V of both transformers without shutting down the load while you have no OLTC.

Tell me, what Earth will say? will it use its engineering or emotioneering degree to answer?

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Parralel 2 transformer

06/23/2011 3:19 PM

You don't do it live for a start. Transformer tap changing with the transformers live AND under load is never a good idea.

If the end user has a problem with voltage drop you set the transformer taps to a higher output voltage and leave them.

Based on the information you have supplied, if your system load is less than 2MVA then you can isolate each 2MVA transformer in turn (using the bus tie switch CB3 to spread the load across a single transformer) and make the tap change while the transformer is dead and the other transformer is powering all the load, just make sure you get someone qualified to do this.

Is this a homework question?

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#7
In reply to #4

Re: Parralel 2 transformer

06/26/2011 7:50 AM

Fully agree with you.

After having to sort out the aftermath of a fool switching a tap changer live. It's not a pretty sight

It proved the Buchholtz relay worked though

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2061
Good Answers: 169
#8
In reply to #3

Re: Parralel 2 transformer

06/27/2011 11:12 AM

Haven't you heard of On Load Tap Changers with RTCC Panels with one OLTC as master and the other as slave?

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1686
Good Answers: 116
#5

Re: Parallel 2 Transformer

06/24/2011 5:54 PM

Jackofalltrades is on the right lines....but it helps if you state your real problem at the start, so it does not look like a "homework" question!

My guess about your problem is :-

  1. That you need to change the transfo taps de-energised.
  2. To do that WITHOUT cutting off any loads, you must parallel the loads [and transfos] through the LV [380V] tie breaker.
  3. You can then (since the loads are now in parallel) isolate one transfo and change its taps.
  4. When you have changed the tap, you need to put that transfo back on line, before opening the tie breaker to split the load again.
  5. Item 4 means you must parallel the transfos with different output voltages.

You will get circulating currents while the [not-equal] transfos are in parallel.

    1. Since you have 20 V difference in 380V nominal, this is about 5% rated volts.
    2. Each transfo has 6% impedance - so you have 5% volts across 6 + 6 =12% impedance. Since 5%/12% is 0.42, you will get 42% rated current circulating in a no-load situation.
    3. If there were 100% load, the higher voltage transfo would take nearly all the load, with about 5% drop - to about the voltage of the lower transfo.

Since you are not exceeding 100% current, the transformers are in no danger of being overheated. But if you leave them in parallel you will be wasting energy and money supplying the losses due to the circulating currents. One transformer will wear out much quicker because it reaches full load instead of (ideally) half-load.

In a "normal" situation, one could have a split bus with 100% load on one transfo "side" and little on the other. Opening/closing the tie would cause 50% to 100% and 50% to about 0% transitions. But the size of these current changes is not very different to the case with "unequal" taps.

What I would worry about is that a transfo, carrying 50% or more of rated current through its inductive reactance, gets transferred onto almost zero load when the tie breaker is opened. The inductive current will keep flowing and might over-volt a load.

However, breakers do not really open instantly - in the normal action they have to burn off any inductive energy in arcs before current falls to zero - and as noted, 50% to 0% change could happen in the "equal taps" case with some systems.

Register to Reply
Power-User
India - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: India
Posts: 162
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Parallel 2 Transformer

06/25/2011 7:31 AM

I agree with you for circulation current in transformer.

But there shall be no problem in momentary paralleling such transformer.

In plant I worked we often switched source from source 1 at 100% to other source 2 at 0%. We never faced over voltage problem as such change over are done at LV side of system.

__________________
When was last time you did something for first time.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indonesia
Posts: 102
#9
In reply to #6

Re: Parallel 2 Transformer

06/27/2011 11:38 PM

Dear all,

This case is now CLOSED. I already change the tap one by one without shutting down any loads, and when 380V and 400V were collided, transformer of 400V took about 970A of Ic and 400A of current-load. Things were going smoothly because of all suggestion you have given to me.

Tornados, you're simple and meaningfull. thanks a lot, sir.

Tonys, listening is fundamental and essential. Thanks a lot, mate.

Jack, your wisdom is unlimited source of power. Thanks a lot, mate.

Electricalexpert65, on now-earth everything need money, but money is not everything. Thank you very much, sir.

67model, it's awesome listening to you. Thanks a lot, sir.

Happy singh, experience is best teacher. There must be a place where our brain can explain. Thank a lot for sharing your experience, mr. singh.

cheers,

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Parallel 2 Transformer

06/28/2011 2:41 PM

Jack, your wisdom is unlimited source of power. Thanks a lot, mate.

Thanks. I must remember to use this line in response to the next pseudoscience over-unity or free energy discussion on CR4.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Register to Reply 10 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

67model (1); Abu Khansa (2); electricalexpert65 (1); Happy singh (1); jack of all trades (2); TonyS (2); Tornado (1)

Previous in Forum: Help on 5th Harmonic Tuned Filter Required   Next in Forum: Short Circuit Calculation

Advertisement