1998 Cavalier 2.2L, Not Starting, Bad ECM?

Well, if you disconnect the battery lead for 15 minutes, the codes will reset. So I am not surprised it is not throwing any codes.

The ECM is located at the front of the passenger front fender, inside the plastic splash shield. I don't think this is your issue (unless car was submerged!).

Mileage? Maintenance schedule? Did you buy used or new? Where on earth are you at? Some of those types of inputs, please.

Ablaze is sometimes the best solution for this particular car, one regarded here at CR4 as (probably) the most troublesome car ever built.

Oh, and welcome aboard.

mileage! oh jeez...are you ready for this? 278xxx...i know i know. its surprising its lasted this long! but I bought it used about 4 years ago...have never had any type of problems like this...replaced a starter and alternator and fuel pump...and the usual, oil changes (every 3 months or 3k), plugs/wires, etc. I also had to have the column replaced about 3 years ago, because some genius tried to steal it not realizing it has that stupid anti theft thing...but havent had any problem starting it or anything since then! which now that i am thinking about the anti theft...in the couple of weeks leading up to its death date...it did act a little funny, would start blinking and car wouldnt start so i would let it sit a few minutes till it stopped blinking and then it would start no problem...

It cranks but wont start...I dont try to start it often because I dont wanna flood anything out. We tried sprayin ether in the air thing (pardon my lack of knowledge on the actual names of these parts, lol) and no go. Someone on another site mentioned it might be a clogged cat. conv., my question is though, would that cause it not to fire? when we checked the timing, before we put the serp belt back on, we tried to start it just to see (that was when we changed the camshaft sensor as well) and it started for about 10 seconds then stalled, and hasnt even bothered to humor me with a half a start since.

so I will list my questions since I obviously tend to ramble:

will a clogged cat conv cause a no start?

could it have something to do with the anti theft system?

would a bad tps cause a no start?

When I ran the codes the first time, the one and only code that popped up was for the camshaft. After i changed it I tested it again, no codes. If a sensor was bad wouldnt it throw a code no matter what? sorry, when it comes to this car i know a little about a lot. which isnt always helpful in trying to explain things!

thanks for your help and for welcoming me :)

"I also had to have the column replaced about 3 years ago, because some genius tried to steal it..." I will reserve comment on this.

"...before we put the serp belt back on, we tried to start it just to see (that was when we changed the camshaft sensor as well) and it started for about 10 seconds then stalled..." This sounds like a good clue. Perhaps bob_c will come by (I mention him because he is a fairly active member, and a better car guy than I am).

Good luck. My patience with another Cavalier is about used up. ^{I promised myself not to even read these Cavalier threads...}

Thank you for your help, although I am even more lost on this car than i was, I also have more insight on whats NOT the issue! I am gonna have it towed to a shop that will look at it for $40 (family friend) and they said they will let me know in a day or two IF they can figure it out, and will tell me what the deal is before doing any repairs, especially since its something i could probably have done way cheaper outside a shop!

I just hate to scrap it because of the money I have dumped into it thusfar.

IF ANYONE has any other suggestions before I take it to the shop monday it would be greatly appreciated!!!

Accidental fire, would be my suggestion. With all the mistakes made in hand grenade type diagnostics and the car still not running You must at some point realize that the personnel you have working for you are missing something. Take it to a GM dealer and pay the man. Last time I helped a friend in a situation like this the final repair part cost was 31.00 and the labor took 5 min. He had spent almost 1k dollars to learn that fuel pump relay was bad. Sundog

GM used a system called passlock I and II. It caused many problems. Try Googling it or searching our "Search this Forum" feature to the right of the screen.

I don't pretent to know anything about these systems.

I doubt a clogged cat would keep it from starting.

I would think it would start and idle even it the tps was bad.

I haven't worked on a car in 10 years, so take my advice for what it's worth, not much.

Good luck and welcome.

Did you turn the engine at all while the serpentine belt was off? If so, could the valve timing be messed up?

Just to clarify so as to avoid adding more confusion:

The serpentine belt has no connection at all to either cam timing or valve timing.

The serpentine belt is the drive belt for the alternator, power steering pump. etc. The cam is driven (on a Cavalier) by a timing chain. Even on belt-driven cams, a toothed timing belt is used, whereas a serpentine belt has (typically) ridges running lengthwise, rather than across.

Whoops! I messed up by confusing my belts.

This might sound dumb and I've got to crash for the day so haven't read every last post so these might have been mentioned already.

But have you checked the PCV valve (assuming it has one). Here's a link that might help:

http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic557255.htm

Or maybe check for vacuum leaks?

There's also an idle air control valve that is referred to here:

http://www.clubcav.com/showthread.php?t=17513

You might also consider checking with the guys at:

http://www.2carpros.com/

They've help me keep my old Saturn running long past it's expected EOL. It think it's up somewhere around 287K miles.

Spooky

Another person that hasn't worked on cars for a couple of years. Try this, might be the answer. http://www.aa1car.com/library/2004/us90410.htm

How did you test to see if you were getting fuel?

I ask because I have seen engines that would pump fuel to the injectors/carb, and even return fuel back down the return line but the injectors were not firing to put fuel into the cylinders (I have also had carb floats stick or jets clog preventing fuel into engine).

Atta boy!

Good advice, and a GA vote.

Thanks, when I went to Carrier School (about a million years ago) they had a slide presentation that I'll never forget. They showed an A/C tech with all the panels off the machine. The tech was running all over the machine chasing wires down. They explained that in most cases 98% percent of the wires, relays etc had nothing to do with the problem. Only focus on the circuits of the problem. As elementary as that sounds it changed the way I went about troubleshooting. Changing out parts until you finally get something positive is an insane approach to correcting a problem. Eliminate everything that has nothing to do with your problem and focus on the problem itself. It sure makes life simpler, at least for me

2 good answers, friend. I hate seeing people spinning the wheel of guesses.

Some of the questions that help me get by.

1, What changed since it last ran correctly.

2, What was the last thing that was changed?

In too many years of wrenching, I have only seen one vehicle that would not run because of a clogged cat. A Hyundai. But there was a clue to that also. It would turn over 2-3 revolutions and then slow WAY down as if a dead battery. No amount of battery combinations would make it turn over fast. When we loosened the EGR valve, it cranked normally and started. Thanks for the good answers.

One area to check is the Crankshaft position sensor (CPS). Check Wikipedia for reference info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankshaft_position_sensor

I have Saturn that had the CPS fail with similar symptoms that you described. Many similar vintage GM car engines with these sensors do not give a code failure.

Welcome to the insanity.

You have 2 good places to start your search. The steering column switch, and the Pass-lock system.

An automotive engine needs only a few things to run. Fuel, spark, air, and compression. fuel is as easy as pouring an ounce of gasoline into the intake manifold through a vacuum line. Check for spark with a substitute spark plug. Spark should be bright blue to white in color. Air is a non issue, unless your air filter is soaking wet with water. That leaves only compression as an issue to check. There is no alternative to a compression tester for most testing.

This should give you a start. I will check back on Tues. Good luck.

Note: the air needs to be warm enough to propagate combustion. In Antarctica (yes I was) the Cats would not start if the temp was -30f or more. we would use a hair drier to warm the manifold and heat the incoming air so the thing would start. Probably not the problem with the Cavalier however, I'm just saying.

I have heard that propane engines are very hard to start in cold weather because of the fuel will not vaporize.

One thing to do to drive another mechanic crazy is to coat the air filter well with clear paint. (oh Bob, you'r such a bitch)

HEY!

Is the car running yet? I am having trouble sleeping during the day worrying about you?