Science or Magic?

I wouldn't call it a hunch, but I have often just sat beside a piece of machinery with my fingers lightly feeling the vibrations. It's not scientific like an impact hammer or Fourier transforms, but I can often tell if a machine is "happy" or not.

Is that a real "KEEP RIGHT" sign, or is it "digitally enhanced"?

Tis real.

Del,

I have given you and svridhar a GQ each as I believe you have both "hit it on the head". When I was much, much younger I had fanciful day dreams and knew then that that was exactly what they were.

Now at the opposite end of my career I know instinctively what is LIKELY to be correct or what may or may not work. In between I have learnt an enormous amount of information and experienced a lot of life, and the lessons, particularly the hard fought ones, have stayed with me consciously and sub-consciously. I don't particularly care what you call it, but a hunch is as good as any.

It's not something that I would sign off on, but I firmly believe that it is something that can ONLY be gained by lots of learning and a lot of experience of all kinds.

So arrow from your bow has hit dot on the target?

That's a good point actually, sometimes if I just aim by 'feel' or 'hunch' if you like I will hit, but if I try to work out where to aim I miss due to 'Overthink' .
(Shooting at unknown distances).
Del

How very true !

The first time i was invited to try my hand at a dartboard in a pub, it went dead-centre _{(this pub was in Bedford, England, hence this spelling. Americans please read 'center' )}

Never could hit the board again

Hi Del, You are so right in every aspect, and as a speciallised mineral collector (Garnets) for 45 years, and there are 15 different types of garnets, I often get a good hunch where I can find them, mainly by looking at the surrounding flora!

Spencer.

LOL! Sounds like my wife!

Heard that, brother. Not only that, but when you spend hours thinking about all the options and designing something that is either ideal, or able to be modified, someone comes along and spends a couple of minutes and thinks they can provide a go or no-go without even a consult.

A hunch, educated guess or gut feeling, how every you call them are nothing but deductive reasoning. Experience has told you what it could or could not be. You just follow the path with that reasoning in mind.

Going on a hunch or gut feeling often occurs when something needs fixed/to work and needs to fast! For a lot the outcome will suffice but wont be as ideal, as stable, or as safe as it could be.

Yes I believe it happens frequently, but that's where ethic's come into play. And the professional would double check him/her self to make sure their "hunch" is really appropriate.

We go through our daily lives thinking we are in control, but on a conscious level we aren't. Reflex action is precisely that.

Like it or not, our brain process masses of data without us being aware. It picks up info from all our available senses, and correlates it with past experience and memory.

'gut instinct' is, IMNSHO, the summation of that. The ambient noise isn't per norm ? something visual is different ?- you can't put your finger on it, but brain is telling you 'lookout'.

It could be that we recall favourable incidents when we act on a hunch, and forget the negative times. I have no idea - you need some kind of neuroscientist for that.

It's an interesting post, and worth making, though I doubt it's specific to engineering types.

I'm reading "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance" and Phaedrus's concept of Quality came to mind as soon as I saw your question. I haven't found it to be a blistering page turner by any means but there are some interesting ideas in there related to this topic.

I have hunches being amazingly right and others that are totally wrong. I think if they are right, you should write down possible reasons that they are right on paper to turn the hunch into something a lot more repeatable. Otherwise you could become an overconfident compulsive huncher and that can be really bad when the dice rolls again.

I know right away if there is enough data for a mathematical solution, although I'm no whiz at the math itself. I also keep a running tally in my head on the conservation of energy in any explanation, and any error there, or in several other aspects of engineering, is as obvious to me as bad grammar. That can all be logic, though. When I have to work fast, I do a lot of mental modeling, accurately enough to be useful in a small fraction of the time for formal work.

On the spooky side, I can tell by feel what adhesive to use on various substances, but that is as close as it has gotten to engineering work. My life has often been guided by coincidences with astronomical odds, and I've had prophetic dreams, etc. I've read that Harry Miller, who built racing cars in the 20s, and did the groundwork for the Offenhauser engine that kept winning at Indy into the 60s got his designs from dreams of the future.

"Zen and the Art. . ." has a lot of interesting points, not least that science has no explanation for the origin and profusion of scientific hypotheses. We seem to make patterns out of all information, and find new truths if we have enough correct data to start with.

Intuitive guesses are a vital part of my inquiry in solving mechanical design problems.

By itself it may not solve the problem but it's a critical part in my correctly identifying what the problem is and facilitates my defining a proper and economical solution.

I'd be lost without it!

The problem I have is trying to defend it to right-brained intellectual theorists in management who don't know a mudguard from a manifold!

L.J.

I agree with ALL said before. Amazing.

If i do have a hunch the first thing i do is to try to poke holes in it. Application of reason and fact finding is how i do my job.

Ron

I believe "gut instinct" is a result of the individuals past experience. It is something that is developed over time. Both on and off the job...

If hunch is defining someones experience and believing on the data and plot then I will agree with view.

Experience under belt allows to look data differently by different people in same room and one who has closer experience encounter generally if data is presented will guide the project better than rest in the room.

There is no substitute for education, experience and then taking data and background information and end use need modifying experiments to meet current needs.

Hand dirty engineer on shop floor is far better in resolving the issue than a clean coat engineer whose prime job is to take some one else data and explain that to upper management.

Hand dirty engineer on shop floor is far better in resolving the issue than a clean coat engineer whose prime job is to take some one else data and explain that to upper management.

I work in the middle.

Ron

Many philosphers have said that a "Hunch" is a guess by a trained brain, but be careful since hunches have lead to many accidents also.

I think the "hunch" and "gut instinct" relate to Science and on insight based on experience.

The "Ah Ha!" moment is Magic.

Cheers

Vince

The "Ah Ha!" moment is Magic.

I have had this so many times. My first reaction is "why didnt i see it the first time".

My friend and Mentor when i was young. "The hardest thing you can do is to make something simple"

Ron

Having settled in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Western North Carolina, I am often painfully aware of the affect of idiom on the understanding of intended communication. When the word "hunch" is used around these parts, for instance, it is often used to describe the mechanical action of vehicle with a manual transmission and a poorly adjusted clutch--or inexperienced driver--or a vehicle engine which is "cutting out" or "missing" and struggling to overcome inertia.

All that being said, there are good "hunches" as well as bad ones. In any case, I must agree, that the more seasoned the "hunchee", the more reliable the hunch.

Z

Our reality is the simultaneous experience of two kinds of space, one is the container of tangible reality, the physical particles of existance and can be interacted with directly, changed directly. The other is non-physical space and is the container of intangible objects that we can observe, but not change directly. The two are intimately linked and dependent upon each other for both form and substance.

It is no surprise then that we are capable of thinking, as thought is our experience of the non-physical. And for those thoughts to be at times very close to the physical reality is also no surprise. We think in order to see what is tangible for what it is.

Your whole body is a nerve centered thought engine. Your "guts" have evolved from creatures that had no brains or eyes or hands and yet were still able to survive and flourish in the physical. When we listen to our "guts" or just listen quietly to the machine, the world, our surroundings, whatever, it is no surprise that we find correct thoughts and real answers that work in the physical.

The trick is learning to hear the voice of our innermost being, the whole enchilada we call self.

That's my two cents. Read Thomas Campbell's "My Big TOE (Theory of everything)

Maybe there's a bit more to 'gut instinct'

I agree. You have to know to look for it in order to see it. What you don't know won't be seen by you until you know enough to recognize it.

Look at the two-slit experiment. You have to know, as the physicist, the observer, what an electron or photon looks like in order for it to appear in your experiment, in your data! Otherwise what you see is a wave function.....

There is another aspect of this too. I've been an electrical engineer designing things for more years than I care to remember but, over the years whenever I had a "hunch" or "gut instinct" I immediately acted on it because I found by experience that if I didn't whatever I was feeling would occur.

Secondly, with a new design, I try to think about everything that could possibly go wrong or not function as intended. Odds are, something will go wrong or not work as intended, but it won't be one of the things I thought about.

There's an old adage among aviators. "If it looks pretty, it'll fly pretty".

I've posted about this book before. It contains references (and attendant discussion/theorizing) to what would be called "inspirational" epiphanies by mathematicians.

Inspiration is a definite process which may be influenced by past experience, but not necessarily always. An example would be Einstein's revelation about time, which can't be explained by "hard earned knowledge/experience," because it was a revelatory thought:

Then something delightful happened. Einstein went to visit his best friend, Michele Besso, a brilliant but unfocused engineer he had recruited to come work at the patent office. Einstein told Besso about the dilemma. "I'm going to give it up," he said. But as they walked to work, Einstein took one of the most elegant imaginative leaps in the history of physics. "I suddenly understood the key to the problem," he later recalled. "Time cannot be absolutely defined." (http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.04/start.html)

The point of inspiration is at the back of the eyes. This is where our attention drifts to when we close our eyes to ponder a problem. But so many inspirational ideas come with our eyes open. And they can just, seemingly, come out of nowhere. The book mentioned above, has examples where the problem solved wasn't being consciously thought about at the moment of epiphany.

Science or Magic?

Yes

"gut instinct"? certainly

hunches at work (engineering community)? not supported by management (politically labeled high risk).

I believe the engineering community MUST create. It is necessary to brainstorm, team design, and be open-minded in the process. I believe this is where most large engineering groups fall short on "trial and error". Example: Edison tried several thousand element combinations to create a light bulb.

Off the job? I definitly play hunches or "try stuff".

I believe it is a topic for discussion.

Then on a 'hunch' visited Scotland.