Automotive Computer Issue

Welcome to CR4.

Please see the numerous threads on CR4 regarding HHO and water electrolysers as this subject has been done to death.

For actual repeatable mileage gains that will save you money (rather than waste it) consider changing your driving style or reducing the aerodynamic drag of your vehicle.

For one thing, "HOH" is sort of a misnomer. Rather, 2H₂O + electricity → 2H₂ + O₂. Other concepts are questionable as well.

Try this classic thread from Blink

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/35169#comment481729

Heavy sigh.

You seemed to have missed the section on thermodynamics when you studied chemistry. Simply put, you never get as much energy out of burning the hydrrogen than it took to electrolyze it.

The alternator does not provide free energy. When a load is put on the electrical system, the motor must supply more energy to turn the alternator.

"the alternator turns at the same rpm. the energy is there so use it."

False. Drawing power from the alternator requires a corresponding increase of the power required to turn the alternator. The basic conversion of watts to horsepower (746 W = 1 HP) demonstrates this.

Regardless of all the negative comments the problem is the excess oxygen being picked up by the O2 sensors. After spending months on this I have found at this time there to be no all round solution. There are spacers to move the O2 sensors back out of the exhaust stream that work sometimes. One or two may be needed to get proper reading, I would not play with the Electronic systems just too complicated. Adding Oxygen and hydrogen is a great idea but with engine controls on modern engines a major problem. There is no easy solution however I would suggest you look into an engine programmer such as made by Edge, Banks, Bully Dog and a host of more. My 7.3 went from an unfordable 11 mpg to 19.5 with an edge unit. I love the idea of Browns Gas but the problems are daunting from a tuning perspective.

Regardless of all the negative comments the problem is the excess oxygen being picked up by the O2 sensors.

You appear hopeless confused. There are very few negative comments here. Most are very positive comments supporting the value of thoughtfulness, education, real data, and scientific inquiry.

Calculate the mass of O2 induced with "HHO" (an idiotic, unscientific misnomer itself). Consider the mass of O2 in the air that is being displaced by the HHO mixture. Compare the infinitesimally small amount of either H2 or O2 induced versus the huge amounts of oxygen and fuel ordinarily induced (thousands of liters vs .75 liters). Although the process can and has been calculated to produce a net loss, no dynamometer (even the $25,000/day super-sophisticated ones) can measure the .1% loss expected. Nor could they measure the .1% gain that would be expected if the HHO arrived with no thermodynamic cost (e.g, if it was produced by another vehicle and piped over to the vehicle whose mileage we are pretending to "improve").

This is an engineering site. Do the math, correctly, then come back to us.

A car pulls in over 100 cfm of air, which is about 500 liter/min O2. You are generating what, a liter/min O2? Is that 0.2% increase in O2 driving the sensor crazy? It must go crazy all the time, as the O2 content of ambient air varies way more than this all the time.

Of course, that assumes that there is excess O2, which their is not. The O2 sensor is after combustion. H2 and O2 are in the perfect ratio, so they are perfectly burned to form water, no excess O2 left.

If you are getting improved fuel mileage, it is because you have altered your timing. You can remove the HHO device, all it does is waste a little energy.

you could put solar panels on the roof of the vehicle and use that to generate electricicty for your hydrogen generator.

sure there's lots of things you could do

That doesn't it doesn't make them a good idea

Is the juice works the squeeze

Thanks for all your reponses, but the question was not answered. I did not ask if you believed in HHO or the tooth fairy. I should not even mention this phenom on this website!! The question was: Do you know of a design circuit that will send a signal to the 5 volt reference to trick the computer to keep the new MAP files in place on the ECM? Simple question. I hope I am not addressing the US congress!

As I mentioned in my first response there are spacers that move the o2 sensors out of the exhaust flow that help in many cases and sometimes you need to stack two possibly three to get the o2 sensor not to read as much oxygen. When it reads excess oxygen it tells the computer of a lean condition and the computer riches up the mixture to get correct reading. This cancels out the benefit of the hydrogen & oxygen. At this time I know of no one that makes a simple electronic device to do the same thing. I have installed about 17 units and will not do installs on any O2 sensor equipped vehicles for this reason.

You are in fact asking us to believe that HHO works or you wouldn't have mentioned it

if you want to trick the computer buy a device to do that, just like roy suggested earlier on, there are a wide array of after market companies that will be happy to sell you stuff

Please accept our apologies for our low idiocy tolerance.

Your question is impossible to parse. Please clarify 1. "design circuit", 2. "send a signal to the 5 volt reference," and 3. "the new MAP files"

1. Did you mean "circuit design"?

2. A signal is not sent to a reference. Perhaps you want to change the reference voltage, or change the voltage coming from a sensor, or some such?

3. MAP in the context of engines, means Manifold Absolute Pressure. There are no MAP files, in an automotive context. Did you mean '"map" as in "fuel map"? In this context, map is a simple word, not an acronym. The fuel map is relied upon for open loop operation.

Why not just buy an "EFIE" like the morons do? Put it on, convince yourself you are getting better mileage because of it and your magical mystery machine (with its stunningly low output) and be done with it. No need to come here an subject yourself to ridicule.

Dreaming that your O2 sensor can pick up the difference in O2 with and without your "HHO"? Dream on.

If you can come up with a simple question, we'd be happy to supply a simple answer.

I can see why you don't use your real name!!!

Why would you say that?

extraordinary claims require

extraordinary proof

got any?

you have been getting an easy time of it compared to any other HHO proponent, because your username makes it appear you are female. The men lose their minds...

Dear Mam,

I think You should consider to install airflow sensor manipulator, this gadget will manipulate data from the airflow sensor to the ECU, in simple language, when the data from manipulator "say" to ECU that they running on lower air rates, so the ECU will tell the Fuel system circuit to reduce the amount of fuel to the engine, so then You will have Your engine runs in leaner fuel flow.

however in modern auto car, the manufacturer add some ability to the ECU to recognized anomalies of their cycles, if it find any irregularity then they will analyzed and diagnosed the problem and the system back on the "default" state, so make sure that Your ECU can be reprogram if the used of air flow data manipulator doesn't help.

another thing that You should consider is Your HHO generator capacity, once I tried on my experienced 3 liter/ min was provide me for less than 20% of fuel reduction, off course it will vary to the vehicle configuration, as I used a modest 1,3 liter normally aspirated carburetor gasoline engine back from 1990 technologies.

FYI

Hidroxy gas have Thermal Value of 3200 Kcal/Kg (approx) and Effective Calories of 3020 (approx) while Petroleum have a generous of 9200 Kcal/Kg thermal value and 7350 of effective calories, in simple math, appart from the sthoiciometry things, You need to produce approximately 3 kg of "Gases" to substitutes 1 kg of petroleum.

know back to Your last question, I have some design but i cannot give You any guarantee if it will work to Your engine and I don not see any facilities of this sites to send pdf files.

Good luck

If you can find the main power lead to the engine's computer, you could wire it so it's only on when the ignition is on. That way it continuously resets itself.

Good answer. I have done that. But it created some start up issues with the engine running rough for several minutes. Again good answer. Thanks

the HHO generator probably also acts as a water vapor injector

it would be interesting to have a simple vacumn powered water injector installed & reset the computer every 3 days

this is the answer as to why you are getting an apparent improvment in gas mileage. Vapor injection does work it also cause premature engine wear.(rust) Why do you think the major auto manufacturers don't use it?

you will find plenty of technically minded people

on a forum that describes itself as

The Engineer's Place for News & Discussion^®

you're right, We're not Keely net or PeskyWiki

We do deal in reality, which is where an answer Lisa could use would reside

very little pixie dust here....