Previous in Forum: Steel Plates   Next in Forum: Punching Operation
Close
Close
Close
15 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Member

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9

Can This Be Molded?

07/30/2011 3:10 PM

Hi,

1) Can this thing ( http://blokle.com/design ) be molded using methods and materials that are used to mold conventional plastic
1.1) bottles?
1.2) jars?

2) How much more expensive will it be (percentage and/or absolutely ) compared to 1.1/1.2?

3) In a case that it is impossible or much more expensive than conventional bottles/jars - do you have ideas for alternative design to achieve the same functionality?

Thanks

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
India - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: India, 200 Km. North of Delhi.
Posts: 1393
Good Answers: 53
#1

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/30/2011 3:28 PM

Possible with a compromise in productivity, and certainly expensive, How much?someone need to work out.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Musician - New Member Australia - Member - Torn and breading Engineering Fields - Nanoengineering - New Member APIX Pilot Plant Design Project - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Magnetic Island, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 3721
Good Answers: 74
#2

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/30/2011 6:09 PM

Hi Blokle

Your chances of finding an answer here are slim. What I would suggest is to contact an injection moulder in your country and discuss the matter with them. The tooling for this is going to be very elaborate and costly.

As I understand it you are looking at a die which can make a huge number of these bottles which makes the mold even more expensive (choice of steel). It also depends on what "conventional plastic" you are choosing.

Why go through all that trouble when you can have the real thing set up in no time at all?

Rest assured, it's been tried and practiced before with out complicating matters.

Wish I could help more, Ky.

__________________
The Twain Has Met
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: 1° North Singapore
Posts: 568
Good Answers: 17
#3

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/30/2011 8:13 PM

It is just bottle with some new feature, so same manufacturing method.

__________________
Sharing knowledge is one thing that defies basic arithmetic logic --- the more you share, the more you get!
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Member United States - Member - Army Vet in the aviation industry

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bridgewater, Va.
Posts: 2175
Good Answers: 119
#4

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/30/2011 11:24 PM

Blow molding with mold inserts for the threaded parts if you need reliable sealing between the bottles?

I'm not a molding expert but seems doable. I guess it all depends on any cost/price point you need to meet.

Hooker

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 166
Good Answers: 4
#5

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 7:34 AM

After millions of dollars of research the government has determined that anything can be made if you throw enouge money at it.

Register to Reply
5
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1170
Good Answers: 153
#6

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 8:29 AM

Forget the moulding for a moment and look at the concept. If you screw two rows of bottles together horizontally, you cannot connect them vertically unless you screw in all the connectors at the same time. You also leave a gap between the bottles for the spanner.

This is obviously a concept for reusing water containers provided in emergency situations. Good concept but think on the following lines.

Make the bottles nominally square (Moulders will insist on radii on all edges, but these can be small compared to the overall dimensions). Add two male and two female vertical dovetail grooves to the sides so that the bottles can be locked together. (The males can be on opposite sides or adjacent sides) Recess the screw top. Now add a cross of female dovetail grooves to the bottom. Add a single male dovetail groove to the top. By dovetail grooves I mean females that are wider at the base than the top, and males that are wider at the top than the base, but that click into each other and lock as the plastic deforms slightly.

You now have the following

· Square-ish bottles that compact better on a pallet, increasing the capacity of water that can be transported and reducing the distribution cost.

· Locking pallet sized horizontal arrays of bottles together before filling with water, allows for easy multi bottle filling and no additional strapping on the pallet.

· An interlayer sheet would be needed to stop the bottles locking together vertically on the pallet, but this could become roofing material. It may be possible to utilise the screw top as the vertical locking mechanism, possibly by shaping it into the male dovetail rather than moulding one into the top of the bottle. When screwed tight it could sit at 45° so the layers would not lock. This eliminates cost (and potential roofing material).

· You do not need to provide separate connector inserts.

· The empty bottles still become a building block that will lock together but without the gaps present in the original design. The manufacturer will want draft angles included but these can be incorporated so that the locking features are enhanced.

· Fill the bottles with mud, dung or dust at the time of construction and you have a waterproof wall that will not act as a greenhouse and fry those inside. Leave a few bottles empty to provide windows. If filled with mud or dung, when it dries it will prevent the keying grooves from deforming and provide a permanently locked structure.

· In the original design, all the threads are external apart from the bottle opening, which is internal. That rules out blow moulding of injection moulded performs, which is the cheapest method of manufacture in bulk.

· Choice of plastic. I would go for a UV stabilised material thick enough to survive for five years as a building material. This gives time for more permanent structures to be constructed. If filled with dried mud, the structure may still be sound after the plastic deteriorates, but this would need tests and proving.

· Publishing on CR4 now puts this design in the public domain, worldwide, so it now lacks novelty and thus it cannot be patented. It can be utilised by any aid agency or plastic bottle manufacturer, without royalties due to me or anyone else. (But I might like the kudos associated with credit for the design)

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 5)
Member

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 9:27 AM

Looks nice! You have 4 days to submit it as idea on Pepsi Refresh Project www.refresheverything.com and get up to $50K to implement this idea. Do it and send us a link to vote for it. Think of design that enables bottles to be used as pipes.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: North West England
Posts: 1170
Good Answers: 153
#10
In reply to #7

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 12:12 PM

I can only find four categories on the Pepsi refresh website, and this would not fit into any of them. Applications are open to US residents only, I am in the UK. If you can find funding go with it. I will give you all the help I can. Pepsi have very good working relationships with both mould makers and plastics moulders. If they are putting up $50K they may be able to talk the mould maker and plastics supplier to stump up matching funding, or at least supply to sample stage at lower than cost.

Bottles as pipes. Mould a score line into the top and base of the bottle so that they can be knocked/cut out to leave a hollow tube. Mould a male tapered thread into the circumference at the top just below the score line. Mould a female tapered thread into the base of the bottle. As the bottles are screwed together they form an interference fit that should need very little sealing.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Member

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 12:25 PM

what about "communities" category? All communities around the globe will benifit from it. I can find you somebody from USA to get the funding (for some royalties for him :) ). I'm not from USA either.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Technical Services Manager Canada - Member - Army brat Popular Science - Cosmology - What is Time and what is Energy? Technical Fields - Architecture - Draftsperson Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clive, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 5916
Good Answers: 204
#8
In reply to #6

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 11:58 AM

I'll grant you an "innovation gold star" for the design idea! I like it, and it would be cheaper to mold.

I may have missed what the OP said was the real intent/usage of his design plan? what is the reason for having threaded connectors on all sides?

chris

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 9
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 12:08 PM

hyrmetic connection that enables inner liquid flow + abillity to make a 90 degree turn (useful for connecting ceiling or turnning pipes)

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#13
In reply to #8

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 1:44 PM

I'm not sure if you have found it or not, Chris. Here is a link to Blokle's larger plan.

Let's say this comes to fruition and a structure is fabricated and filled. Let us further say a bottle (it will be the bottom middle row, we all know it) springs a leak... repair method?

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - Technical Services Manager Canada - Member - Army brat Popular Science - Cosmology - What is Time and what is Energy? Technical Fields - Architecture - Draftsperson Hobbies - RC Aircraft - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Clive, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 5916
Good Answers: 204
#14
In reply to #13

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 2:31 PM

I see now...

well let me say that these connectors do not need to be threads. I would suggest moulding with built-in zipties, or 'ratcheting' snap-together connectors... and otherwise it is just 3d Lego™

but I think that for effective use of the materials, that foams will work just as well (ie styrofoam)

One general principle in engineering/architectural is to start designing from a Specifications place, and not from a materials/shape place. What I mean is that you shouldn't start with a threaded bottle. One should start with a Specification for what space is to be defined, and for what price, and if a particular material is desired, then that too. How much light is to be getting through? What is the intended R value of the insulation? What structural wind load, snow load, etc.

If you don't start with these basic questions and answers, you may as well build out of Lego™. You will have no goals, and won't know when you are done. What is the budget? etc.

If you trying to develop new building materials... then you also need to know much more about architecture and the molding and bottling industries.

It is suggested that if you dont' know the structure that can be built with botttles, that you actually build with some existing plastic bottles.. and see how the construction goes, and then you can measure the R values, structural capabilities, and UV endurance.

Without data of this sort, the whole thing is a fantasy. Starting with "Can it be molded?" is simply the wrong place to start this project.

sorry.

Chris

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Popular Science - Biology - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 3523
Good Answers: 146
#15
In reply to #6

Re: Can This Be Molded

07/31/2011 9:11 PM

The design is great, and so is the thought behind it. By designing to save shipping costs, you added a value for the manufacturer and user, whether the goal or end user is a humanitarian project or not.

__________________
incus opella
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 268
#12

Re: Can This Be Molded?

07/31/2011 1:06 PM

A f*** it, i shall loan you my glue gun.

__________________
guds777
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Register to Reply 15 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

artsmith (1); Blokle (3); bravo88 (1); chrisg288 (2); Doorman (1); Gazu (1); guds777 (1); Hooker (1); jhhassociates (2); ky (1); rakesh_semwal (1)

Previous in Forum: Steel Plates   Next in Forum: Punching Operation

Advertisement