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Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 9:25 AM

Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

Open the pdf of the full paper [55 pg]


I'll spoil the end, by posting the excerpt below


12.2Future Directions

Even if the various criticisms of complexity theory don't negate its relevance, it would be great to address those criticisms head-on-and more generally, to get a clearer understanding of the relationship between complexity theory and the real-world phenomena that it tries to explain.

Toward that end, I think the following questions would all benefit from careful philosophical analysis:

• What is the empirical status of asymptotic claims? What sense can we give to an asymp-totic statement "making predictions," or being supported or ruled out by a finite number of observations?

• How can we explain the empirical facts on which complexity theory relies: for example, that we rarely see n10000 or 1.0000001n algorithms, or that the computational problems humans care about tend to organize themselves into a relatively-small number of equivalence classes?

• Short of proof, how do people form intuitions about the truth or falsehood of mathematical conjectures? What are those intuitions, in cases such as P = NP?

• Do the conceptual conclusions that people sometimes want to draw from conjectures such asP = NP or BPP = BQP-for example, about the nature of mathematical creativity or the interpretation of quantum mechanics-actually depend on those conjectures being true? Arethere easier-to-prove statements that would arguably support the same conclusions?

• If P = NP, then how have humans managed to make such enormous mathematical progress,even in the face of the general intractability of theorem-proving? Is there a "selection effect,"by which mathematicians favor problems with special structure that makes them easier tosolve than arbitrary problems? If so, then what does this structure consist of?

In short, I see plenty of scope for the converse essay to this one: "Why Computational Com-plexity Theorists Should Care About Philosophy."

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#1

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 9:36 AM

Huh?

Have you and roger been hanging out behind my back?

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#2

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 11:28 AM

The subject is too complex for me.

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#3

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 11:31 AM

Who cares?

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 12:07 PM
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#16
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Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 6:03 PM
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#4

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 12:04 PM

Interesting topic. I'll try to digest this paper in the next two days and bring my comments back.

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#6

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 12:45 PM

Gov't dollars spent on gobbledegook.

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#7
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Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 12:57 PM

A blind man, wedded to darkness, cannot grasp the simplicity of a candle nor the beauty of Chagall.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 1:30 PM

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the Theory of Computation.

"When a blind man and one who sees are both together in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the light comes, then he who sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness."

Just like Jesus, Chagall was a Jew...coincidence?

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#9
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Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 2:47 PM

Should I imply that you also believe that philosophy is gobbledygook or that you believe a philosophical metaphor is an improper response to a non-sequiter?

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#10
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Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 3:05 PM

Looking at things from a scientific perspective or from a philosophical perspective, I believe, are two totally different things. If I say I don't "believe" in philosophy, well, that's just silly.

I meant the latter...tongue in-cheek. Which philsopher did the metaphor originate from?

I don't know what "gobbledygook" means. I believe the poster without name mentioned that particular confection.

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#11
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Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 4:00 PM

Well my reply #7 was a reply to comment #6 that used the colloquial term gobbledygook. An easy search could get you a definition of the term. I do take a slight exception to the Wikipedia definition I linked to, in that usually gobbledygook has a derogatory or condescending connotation. #7 was not a comment to the lengthy paper on computation theory. (That's why I made a reply instead of a separate comment.) I did not believe that the AP of comment #6 had given this paper a fair assessment in just three hours and twenty minutes of time. I felt he was blind man criticizing an artist's color choice before I or anyone could evaluate this 55 page essay. Maybe I will ultimately agree with the anonymous coward. I am insulted that philosophy and computational theory cannot be discussed here at CR4 without trolls.

As to the author of the philosophical metaphor, well that would be me.

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#12
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Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 4:08 PM

Considering the normal stuff like; I can't find my mouse, or how do I get MS Word to load...this topic was a bit farfetched for the usual "trolls" on the CR4 Software & Programming section for "The Engineer's Place for News and Discussion®".

Since this does have an esoteric relationship to programming I let it slide.

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#14
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Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 4:18 PM

So we finally get an in depth essay to discuss and people here respond with off the cuff insults and implications of government waste. CR4 is really going downhill.

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#17
In reply to #12

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 8:20 PM

I didn't want to put this up on the General page & we have no social science section

I was excited to see so many comments

being generous Red has the only marginally on topic reply

would that make the on topic percentage 6 ?

I think this goes along with Ed's thread

I don't think we'll see any comment from Dr ol Rog, I'm on his official DNR [do not respond] list

No idea why AP1 thinks Scott Aaronson is funded by the government?

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#19
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Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 11:46 PM

I thank you for the recognition of being at least marginally on topic.

I'm sorry that I missed a timely entry into Ed's thread. I presume I missed his thread due to CR4's and my personal volume of incidents that have conspired to preoccupy me. Speaking solely of Ed's topic, keeping critical thinkers distracted until the mob roars seems like politics "modus operandi" lately.

I will sit tomorrow night with this entertaining essay and mull over the intersection of hyper-speed quantum computing and philosophical reasoning. I may not grasp half of the nuances of this paper but it certainly does not deserve a lazy summary judgement.

(Dear god am I setting myself for failure. Could I possibly ask for a one night extension on this homework? Please?)

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#13

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 4:11 PM

Oh, and as far as how P=NP could be true, I can immediately think of four solutions if these are two variables "N" and "P" and not a previously defined pair of acronyms "P" and "NP".

  1. P=0
  2. P=∞
  3. P=-∞
  4. N=1

Now I can think of a few other set theory solutions too if NP is meant to be Not P, but I do not wish to comment further without taking the time to properly study the paper.

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#15

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 5:48 PM

Perhaps there are some philosophers with enough training in mathematics to understand what computational complexity is, but I bet the number is very small. Most of the philosophers I've known are interested in ethics or epistemology; none seems interested in metaphysics which (I think) is what would cover computational complexity.

Offhand I don't see that philosophy contributes much to science or mathematics. I agree with Richard Feynman who once said: "Philosophers say a great deal about what is absolutely necessary for science, and it is always, so far as one can see, rather naive, and probably wrong."

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#18

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/10/2011 10:21 PM

Just going on the 'spoil the end' - given no time to read the full thing - it seems to me both sides should. Both are logic

P = NP is interesting, as typically this could be regarded a 'philosophy in math' where an inferred N also exists with the first P (i.e. this is NP = NP)

Equally 'phiosphically'; we add a 'result' to an unbalanced equation, in order to balance it, in order to solve it to a 'result'.

So why should Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity? might help them seeing the hidden, understanding the assumed and getting a better result.

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#20

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/11/2011 9:54 AM

Garthh,

being a mere Enginer, i appreciate discussions where terms are defined before we rush off into the issues around them.

You could start perhaps with P=???? and N=??

I could make guesses but they could easily be wrong and after a message from me attempting some clarification on an earlier topic I was told to wake up we coverd that two years ago!

If I have missed previous posts on this topic, I apologise, but there is too much to do just try keeping up with my email and other correspondence.

Sleepy

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#21

Re: Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity

08/17/2011 6:08 PM

Thanks for posting the paper! It looks that it may prove interesting reading... hopefully I find the time soon.

For those people only reading the "spoiler", P and NP refer to problem classes. If I remember right, "P" problems are ones that have a direct solution; "NP" problems are ones that do not have direct solutions available, but guesses can be readily checked and compared. A simple example is factoring a number. Checking if a number is a factor of another is a "P" problem, finding the number to check is an "NP" problem.

I may not have it exactly right, but that's the gist. Directly solvable problems vs ones that aren't.

The last philosophical discussion I heard on this type of subject was that there are people who are testing mathematical theorems using computers to "brute force" an answer. That is, rather than developing some eloquent proof (that could lead to other areas of research), they are simply testing every possible answer to prove/disprove the theorem.

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