Previous in Forum: Power Transformer Rated Value and Maximum Value   Next in Forum: Do You Recommend Me Working As Sales Engineer In Pumps Company?
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Anonymous Poster #1

Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/09/2011 6:42 AM

I found the pipeline of my manifold having a lot of water droplets over it(Not dew), The operators

Informed that this is because of the low temperature of the crude in the line.

Is this line needs to be Heat traced to avoid the formation of water droplets on the pipe line?

Or insulating the line could show some positive results?

Please advice

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Water droplets on the crude line+ Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/09/2011 6:58 AM

Insulate it.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 468
#2

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/09/2011 8:37 AM

It is dew.

It's condensation of water vapor. It's called the dew point. The line is cooler than the surrounding air and is below the dew point, therefore water is condensing on it.

Why is it a problem?

Anyways, yes, insulate it.

Be wary of the insulation that you use. Water can condense inside the insulation and create a bigger problem than you already have.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Egypt - Member - Member since 02/18/2007

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Posts: 1733
Good Answers: 248
#5
In reply to #2

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/09/2011 11:58 PM

Yes, that is an important point, we have to check the insulated piping systems for formation of corrosion under insulation CUI, so we have to prepare a regular checking plan for that CUI to reduce its potential by applying an inspection intervals, methods, and TMLs as indicated at API 570 "Piping Inspection Code: Inservice Inspection, Rating, Repair, and Alteration of Piping Systems".

__________________
It is better to be defeated on principles, than to win on lies!
Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#3

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/09/2011 9:02 AM

Only 4 out of 12 wells are in service now and the climate here is always rainy.

When we start the production on a full swing we will be using all the 12 lines and I believe this should cause further depreciation in the temperature. Already now the temperature is 60 F ..My questeion is, If i leave the line without insulation, Is there a possibility of Icing in the future??

Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 13529
Good Answers: 468
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/09/2011 9:19 AM

Yes. Water begins to freeze at 32° F. So if your ambient temperature goes below that, the water will freeze.

However, if the temperature of the crude is above freezing, it may prevent freezing on the outside of the line.

What, exactly, are you worried about?

Rust?

Thickening of the crude?

If you insulate now, you will be trapping moisture underneath. Not good.

__________________
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Ben Franklin
Reply
2
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: India
Posts: 59
Good Answers: 11
#6
In reply to #3

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/10/2011 8:02 AM

Here three parameters play the role, crude temperature (T), ambient temperature (Ta)and relative humidity (RH) in air. Icing is possible if both the temperatures are below 32 F or only ambient temperature is below 32 F. In case ambient temp(Ta) is much above 32 F and RH is low, even crude at 20 F also may not cause icing on outer pipe surface, it may be only sweating. In fact how much low temp you can handle without icing (32-T) is funtion of Ta/RH.

Instead of conventional insulation, a thick (0.3 mm) coating for insulation for lower differential temp may be useful.

__________________
When there is smoke, there must be fire.
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
2
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member India - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: City of destiny, INDIA
Posts: 775
Good Answers: 67
#8
In reply to #6

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/10/2011 11:55 AM

GA, A good identity given byprdp2344. If ambient temp is Ta, crude oil temp is T and water freezing point is To, then the relation can be expressed as follows for minimum value of T to avoid freezing:

(T-To) = k(Ta-To)/RH Provided relation is not exponential one.

It could be a matter of research to correlate it find value of constant k for different circumstances.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#7

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/10/2011 8:04 AM

Not knowing anything about your working environment, I can tell you that 3 conventional methods of dealing with this problem are: 1) dehumidify the air in contact with the pipe,2) raise the temperature of the pipe by heating it directly or heating the oil that flows through it, 3) insulate the pipe.

Reply
Associate

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 41
Good Answers: 7
#9
In reply to #7

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/12/2011 1:10 AM

Welderman, I strongly don't agree with any of your suggestions. Crude lines are generally outdoor lines. 1) Impracticable to dehumidify the air in contact with pipe, it may require an enclosure around pipe 2) OP to check, whether technologically feasible, I feel it is highly uneconomical and not advisable, & 3) Feasible but a installation and its maintenance is a costly affair (because condensate may form inside).

As OP describes that "the climate here is always rainy", it appears to be mostly outdoor installation. In fact rain will help to keep pipe outer surface warmer. Ice formation in piping looks to be a distant possibility and even if it is happening ones in a blue moon, it's not a cause of worry. OP should take note of comments 6 & 8 to assess possibility of ice formation.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1601
Good Answers: 58
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/12/2011 7:40 AM

I notice that although you criticise my suggestions, you don't offer any alternatives. I'm not a pipe-line expert, but I do understand the fundamentals of water condensation. I offered my suggestions based on the physics of moisture condensation from the atmosphere. I didn't include adjusting atmospheric pressure because I thought that might be too impractical. Pipe temperature may be raised simply by increasing the crude pressure and flow rate. In fact, I know of pipe-lines where intermediate pumping stations are installed which do just that. A side affect of keeping the pressure and flow rate higher, is that the oil is warmer, and external condensation is minimized. I've also seen systems equipped with coaxial pipes where the space between the pipes is either evacuated, or filled with dry gas to serve as insulation. OP provided no details about his installation, so I gave clues based in atmospheric physics. How to convert the physics then becomes an engineering problem. If you have a better way, I'd like to hear it.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 41
Good Answers: 7
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Water Droplets on the Crude Line + Heat Tracing or Insulation

09/13/2011 1:27 AM

Sorry welderman, my intention was not to criticise your suggestions, only I tried to look from different angles. In some cases I may be wrong too.

Earlier I was also in a view exactly as you said "A side affect of keeping the pressure and flow rate higher, is that the oil is warmer, and external condensation is minimized." But I did not express as OP says- "Only 4 out of 12 wells are in service now and the climate here is always rainy. When we start the production on a full swing we will be using all the 12 lines and I believe this should cause further depreciation in the temperature." So it indicates that increasing flow is decreasing crude temperature. But OP did not say anything about effect of increasing pressure. Let OP should appear and see the feasibility of solutions suggested.

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Reply to Forum Thread 11 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Abdel Halim Galala (1); Anonymous Poster (1); kramarat (2); pradeep44 (2); prdp2344 (1); pritam (1); PWSlack (1); welderman (2)

Previous in Forum: Power Transformer Rated Value and Maximum Value   Next in Forum: Do You Recommend Me Working As Sales Engineer In Pumps Company?

Advertisement