Previous in Forum: Can a Battery be Reverse Charged?   Next in Forum: Motor Starting Problem with Generator
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Member

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5

RCCB help

10/03/2011 11:12 AM

Hi, I got a problem and seeking for help, could anyone do me a favor.

The power supply of network data centre is supplied by a UPS. The UPS's output connects to 2 nos. of 800A MCCB individually. And the circuits are protected by:

( Form >> to )

A) 800A MCCB >> 100A MCCB >> 100A AI switch >> ( circuit 1 & 2 )

1) 63A Type C MCB >> 63A AI switch >> 32A RCBO >> Power socket

2) 63A Type B MCB >> Floor box (40A RCCB + Power socket)

B) 800A MCCB >> 100A MCCB >> 100A AI switch >> 63A Type B MCB >> Floor box (40A RCCB + Power socket)

The case is that, a fault occurred at data server that supply by the power socket of circuit A(1). The 32A RCBO was tripped. When I tried to reset the RCBO, it tripped again immediately. At the mean time, an unpredictable scenario was happened. Some RCCB (around 6 nos.) at circuit A(2) and circuit B were tripped at the same time immediately. That caused around 7 nos. of servers were downed. Could anyone do me a favor to give a hint? Thanks you so much.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 803
#1

Re: RCCB help

10/03/2011 11:26 AM

"The case is that, a fault occurred at data server that supply by the power socket of circuit A(1). The 32A RCBO was tripped. When I tried to reset the RCBO, it tripped again immediately."

So what did you do to determine and correct the cause of the 32A RCBO trip? Nothing? Did you just attempt to reset the breaker without knowing why it tripped? If so, that alone could be the base cause of the additional trips. You were closing into a fault and that brief current surge caused a momentary imbalance that was detected by the other RCCBs as non-return current.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Member

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5
#3
In reply to #1

Re: RCCB help

10/03/2011 8:16 PM

Dear JRaef, thank you so much. The cause had been found and isolated. Could you explain more on "current surge caused a momentary imbalance that was detected by the other RCCBs as non-return current". Thank you

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 84
Good Answers: 1
#6
In reply to #3

Re: RCCB help

10/04/2011 10:58 AM

current surge when highly inductive in nature can cause imbalance i.e. current going in may be higher than the current going out. This may have caused operation of RCCB.

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Dubai,UAE
Posts: 62
Good Answers: 2
#2

Re: RCCB help

10/03/2011 5:18 PM

There is an earth fault which is causing the RCBO & RCCBs tripping,Find out the fault by check your all cables & their insulations.I am sure there is an earth leakage in the system.

What about the voltage is it stable?

__________________
There are no shortcuts on the road to a great experience.
Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5
#4
In reply to #2

Re: RCCB help

10/03/2011 8:18 PM

Thank you so much. The cause had been found and isolated, but I haven't check the voltage level, will it cause the RCD tripped?

Register to Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 223
Good Answers: 15
#5
In reply to #4

Re: RCCB help

10/03/2011 11:18 PM

if the breaker tripped again . . then . .

(a) either the fault has not been correctly identified and rectified,

OR

(b) there existed more than one fault and all faults have not been correctly identified and rectified,

OR

(c) a new fault has come into existence after the first one and caused the device to trip again . . .

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Member

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5
#7

Re: RCCB help

10/05/2011 7:05 AM

No MCCB or MCB was tripped, only the the RCCBs were affected. That caused around 7 nos. of servers downed. Finally, a fault equipment at circuit A(1) had been isolated, and all circuits had been reset. My question is that ;

1) Why the other RCCBs at the final circuit of the separated circuits were tripped during I reset aforesaid RCBO?

2) How the fault affect separated circuits?

Circuit diagram is attached

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32142
Good Answers: 838
#9
In reply to #7

Re: RCCB help

08/22/2024 6:17 AM

A1) Because as the circuit with the true fault was reconnected without being corrected, the protective devices on the other 7 circuits also saw that fault momentarily and did what they are designed to do.

A2) Because the current appearing in the circuit protective conductor on the circuit with the true fault found its way back to the supply via the line conductors of the other 7 circuits during the reconnection event.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1686
Good Answers: 116
#10
In reply to #7

Re: RCCB help

08/22/2024 10:56 AM

Dear Marcolao,

1/ I am inclined to think the breakers that tripped tripped on residual current, 30 mA??, not overcurrent. Did the equipment fault found on the faulted circuit suggest this?

2/ The circuit diagram does not tell you everything about the real circuit. In particular, there are safety earthings/groundings of all the panel metalwork and all the cases of all the electrical/electronic equipment. All the panels may be bonded to each other. The impedance of all this may be lower than the apparent earth wire of an individual RCD/RCBO and most of the current of an earth fault may go via multiple routes not apparent from a circuit diagram. What information I have on the impedance of wires in conduit states that the impedance of an earth return on the outside of a conduit is always lower than DC measure.

3/ My own testing of RCDs at hardly more than the nominal maximum of 30mA finds that they trip far faster than half a cycle, although the standard requirement may be 0.2 seconds. It is quite possible they could respond to a capacitance charge/discharge surge driven by the 340 peak of nominal 230V at the instant of an earth fault. Note that the EMC filters on good equipment will have their capacitors returned to the metalwork of the equipment.

4/ I would wonder if the 6 circuits spuriously tripped shared a 3 phase or other cable or conduit /trunking with the faulted RCD/RCCB??

5/ RCCB/RCBO devices do not usually have a time delay to allow discrimination or indication of if trip was overcurrent or residual.

6/ It is not clear if there are any sub-circuits beyond the 32 Amp "final" breakers which could be made to discriminate by time and/or current to avoid the spurious tripping.

7/ Wiring regulations do warn about the build up of standing residual currents due to capacitance currents of electronic equipment EMC filters. Note that imbalance is inherent because the voltage to earth of neutral is normally low while live is at line voltage, EMC capacitors from live and neutral to earth are always of equal nanofarads. This can make apparently separate circuits more sensitive than their residual nameplate.

8/ 32 A single phase devices are often DIN rail mount and easy to change to another make.

9/ I would suggest consulting the makers of the breakers that tripped about how sensitive they are and if there is an alternative.

10/ Also contact the premium breaker makers about the problem, of which they may have experience and a solution. Siemens and Brown Boveri come to mind.

67model

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5
#8

Re: RCCB help

10/08/2011 1:18 AM

Further circuit diagrams are attached for your reference. Thank you so much.

http://www.engineeringexchange.com/forum/topics/help-rcd-trip

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 10 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

67model (1); Aseer (1); JRaef (1); Marcolao (4); muditmah (1); PWSlack (1); soebfatehi (1)

Previous in Forum: Can a Battery be Reverse Charged?   Next in Forum: Motor Starting Problem with Generator

Advertisement