Mounting Busbar For Ground, Outside Panel

Yes I can. How did I not notice the picture this morning? Duh!!!!

Yes. That would be a piece of cake. Looks like it's within code too.....I think.

Here I am, 10 posts later, and looking at this exact option.

Are you sure it's good to go with the codes? If so, that's my answer.

Thanks Kevin

Do you know any electricians around there you could ask?

Or, maybe go to the local electrical supply house and ask them what you need to buy from them to do this.

_{Just insulate it with some of the compresssed plastic bags you store in your nooks and carnnies.}

I asked a couple a little while ago in Lowes. Completely clueless.

Most "real" electricians know enough to run wire and do new construction. When it comes to something outside of that, they don't tend to have any idea.

Not that I blame them. I'm sure they have the stuff that they do every day, memorized.

I had in mind a real wholesale electrical supply house that real electrical contractors use.

Neither Lowe's nor Home Depot have competent help. They have clerks.

Don't fry yourself.

No. I don't ask clerks anything. These were electricians that were in there buying parts.

I'm not going to fry myself. Everything will be shut off. It's easy enough to do. More of a code question. Since all ground goes to an exposed rod in the yard, I wouldn't think it would be a big deal. Of course I can't look up anything in the NEC without buying the book.

I've got spaces for 30 different fuses in the panel, and a total of about 27 bar holes for both neutral and ground. I think it's okay to double up grounds in the panel at the bar, but not neutrals. If I take it apart, I'm putting in the biggest bars I can safely fit.

It's a mess anyway. I probably just need to bite the bullet and do it right.

Not legally...but you can do it

The point the NEC would make about that is ground fault currents would be in an exposed area...not cool. You could also have low level fault currents outside of the box, but so low as to not cause the breaker to trip. That's the kind of stuff the NEC tries to prevent.

Putting in an additional grounding bar as see above is legal and much safer.

Unfortunately there's no room to add a bar. The idiots that built the house didn't install a bar that was big enough to accommodate all of the neutrals and grounds.

I figured this would probably be against code. I was thinking maybe if I mounted another external bar in a junction box and strictly used it for ground wires, I might be okay. But I don't want to do anything that's going to pop up on an inspection report if I ever decide to sell the place.

The panel needs to be tidied up anyway. This would just make it a little easier.

You can run the ground into another panel which is suitably rated, but the problem is the proximity to the circuit feeding that which is grounded in the panel.

i.e., the ground must return to the source.

Yeah. I can make room in the panel for a larger bar or separate ground bar, but everything has to come apart to do it.

Thanks a lot pete. That clinches it. KJK was right on. It's nice to see the actual code though.

I have to say, since I'm not a total expert, anything in my house that has a factory ground on the plug, will be grounded at the panel. Better safe than sorry. I don't want to void any warranties either.

I'm already into the beer today, so I guess it'll be tommorrow for this project.

I'm proud to say, that sometimes usually, CR4 just beats the hell out of a google search.

_{Depending on the nature of the question.}

Last time I did electrical work It's been a few years so the NEC may have changed. You were aloud to run one ground and one neutral per two circuits the feeds off two breakers. Was common practice to run 12/3 romex to a distance and split it into two 120 volt circuits. You may be able to double up some of the ground wires in the panel to find space. If it's changed some one speak up.

I think it's still okay to double up grounds, but not neutrals.

I found this on another site. The second answer indicates that it would be alright to mount another ground bar to the inside of the panel box itself. I'm not the OP on the other site. This would work for me also. Again, it's about the codes. I'd rather spend the extra time now, than have to redo it in 20 years, or whenever I sell.

kramarat,

Like I said in #1, buy a ground bus extension for about $6 to $8 bucks. They have different sizes.

Find an area in the existing panel, screw it in, run a #10 jumper over. Some of these kits even come with a solid bonding link (about the size of a #10).

Edit: I just walked back into my warehouse and found a (new in the bag with mounting screws) SQ-D PK18GTA Equipment Grounding Bar Kit.

PM me with your address, we will figure out a way to get it out to you. and I will call Lyndoor Express Delivery and get it to you "next day".

I may not respond till tomorrow morning, getting ready to head out for the day.

Regards - KJK

Don't worry about it man. It'll cost more to ship than I can buy one for.

I looked at post #1 this morning, and somehow it didn't register that the bar was attached to the panel box itself. I was thinking it had to be attached to the main ground/neutral, where there's not much space.

I'm still going to clean up the nest in the panel. I'll post a before and after pic tomorrow.

I appreciate the offer to send the one you have, but you know damned well, as soon as you do that, you'll need it.

I was looking at them today at Lowes..................about $6 for what I need.

Thanks again.

LynDoor™Express Delivery. When you ABSOLUTELY have to have it overnight.

I like it!!

In newer codes, if you share a neutral, you must use handle ties or common trip breakers. -- JHF

add a sub panel, which can be handy

I'm going to put one out in my shop, (100 amp), but I have to finish the inside of the house first.

All done guys. Took about 4 hours. I overkilled the ground bar, but no big deal. It's on the upper left. Also put in a larger neutral bar, and got everything labeled. Plenty of room for future circuits.

I didn't take a before picture, but it was a birds nest. I eliminated about 20' of wire that was just jammed in there. I couldn't really see the back of the panel box when I started.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Your Hired!! Looks Pretty and Nice, Mark. I've worked panels that were what your's was like, they can be a real pain in the A$$! Good Job

looks good

it's always a good idea to make it look like you know what you are doing

Yeah, now I know why I was scared to work in there...............it was a mess.

Makes my whole brain feel better.

You do good work!

Thanks. I had seen a picture on line of a fuse box. Every wire was cut to the perfect length for each breaker, and bent at a perfect 90° angle where it went into the breaker. It was a piece of art. I wanted to get somewhere close to that look.

Originally, every wire on mine was too long, grounds included. Instead of cutting them, they just wadded the excess wire into balls and jammed it in where it would fit.

if you ever have to work with signal [audio] wiring, have them cross the power at 90° for less interference

Excellent job sir!

Glad it worked out.

Thanks for coming back and posting the picture.

Thanks for setting me on the right track. The reason I was thinking of mounting a bar externally, is that there was no room inside. It wasn't easy, but it was easier than I thought it would be. I had every wire out.

That was the last step. I've already traced out every circuit in the house.....................................nothing was labeled when I moved in.

Now I can get back to wiring the kitchen so I can install cabinets.

Sorry but it would never get past an inspection to BS7671 or Part P of the UK building regulations.

The UK regulations are getting to beyond the stage of a joke! 35 years as an industrial electrician and I'm not qualified to change the light fitting in my lounge unless I pay £420 to a council inspector to issue a certificate! Of course I could go for training and registration at a cost of near £1200 and issue my own certificate.

To hell with them the light fittings going in, what the eye doesn't see the heart doesn't grieve.

Living in a flat (apartment) I have to have an electrical PIR (Periodic Inspection Report) every 3 years. I think the 8 arm chandelier may be noticed.

It's getting difficult to keep up with all of the rules and regulations over here too.

I'm not bothering with permits or inspections on my inside work. Technically it only has to be up to 1983 codes, but I'm going further than that on a lot of stuff.

I think the guy that built the house probably paid off the inspector when it was built. The house is solid, but as far as the electrical is concerned, I've found things that not only weren't up to code, but were actually dangerous.

Please use this type, can be placed / installed inside the same DB