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Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/18/2011 7:59 AM

We are experiencing a problem of an overhung pump.
Some facts :
1. The pump is overhung-mounted.
2. There are 2 pumps A/B (1 running, 1 spare)
Histories of Pump A (the one with high vibration) :
1. The vibration was always high from the beginning (5 ~ 7 mm/s peak vs 6.42 mm/s peak)
2. The last repair was to change mechanical seal and bearings.
3. All other conditions of internal parts of pump was good. Wearing rings clearance were good.
4. We ran the pump, the vibration reached 8 mm/s.
5. Since the pump running below its design, we tried to increase the flow to the design flow, but the vibration didn't decrease. It even reached 10 mm/s.
6. The vibration of on vertical inboard and outboard bearings position were high (8 ~ 10 mm/s), while the horizontal position were low (3 ~ 4 mm/s). For comparison, the vibration of pump B were 4 mm/s.
7. The spectrum of vibration at vertical position dominants at vane pass frequency, while at horizontal position there's no dominance at all at vane pass frequency. For comparison, both of vertical and horizontal position of pump B's spectrum shown vane pass frequency as their dominant amplitude.

maybe someone could give me suggestions / possibilities of what happen to pump A?

Thank you.

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Guru
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#1

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/18/2011 8:48 AM

Apart from the obvious ones of a foreign object attached to the impeller or impeller damage/distortion, here is a possibility.

If the pumps are mounted on the same sub-frame, the vibration of the other pump is causing "brinnelling" of the bearings of the stationary pump, i.e. it is causing the stationary bearings to wear "flats" in the otherwise circular-cross-section shaft. When the pump runs, these flats cause the perception of increased vibration of the second pump.

The solution is to mechanically isolate the two pumps so that the vibration from operation of the first pump cannot affect the bearings of the second pump.

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#2

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/18/2011 10:45 AM

PWSlack could be on to somethiing. Unless your impellers are IDENTICAL in every way the pumps will have different characteristics anyway. I worked (OK I didn't actually work, I was engineering manager) where we fabricated our own open impeller pumps. Plastic housings Ti, Hasteloy, stainless steel impellers. Balance was always a problem. Our pumps ran at 3,450 RPM. You may need to dynamically balance things.

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Guru

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#3

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/18/2011 11:53 AM

If you always had vibration from the get-go then I would question whether the pump manufacturer did a proper dynamic balance of that impeller prior to assembling the pump. Assuming a cast metal impeller that was machined down to a given diameter, machined at the wear ring area and polished/filed internally to assure smooth vane area passageways then the assembled impeller should have balanced as the last stage of the impeller assembly. You don't mention if this 1500-1800-3000 or 3600 RPM use or the diameter of the impeller but these factors are critical to properly balancing an impeller prior to use.

If you didn't see signs of balancing having been done around the OD of the impeller that could well be your problem. Wouldn't be the first time someone forgot to balance an impeller or did it at the wrong speed.

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#4

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/19/2011 12:30 AM

Interesting scenario. Just remember that dynamic unbalance requires a 1x shaft component to be present in the spectrum. If this 1x component is small then might be prudent to look elsewhere. Without seeing the spectral data can only speculate with details you have provided. May I suggest investigating pump recirculation, impeller blade tip to cut water clearance, discharge pipe work design and possible resonance excited by blade pass frequency. Keen to hear what you find.

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Guru
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#5

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/19/2011 12:41 AM

Predominant amplitude at van pass frequency generally indicate 'defective vane' or 'distorted vane' or 'hole formation in a vane' or 'faulty vane profile/geometry'. So please check over these points. 'Faulty vane profile/geometry' may be more likely as the same predominant amplitude exists in other identical pump also. Pump A has higher vibration, may be coupled with an unbalance. Balancing may reduce the peak level like pump B, but problem may still persist.

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Power-User

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#6

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/19/2011 9:13 AM

For all, vane pass frequency is normally the number of impeller vanes times running speed (RPM) of the pump, imbalance is normally at running speed, and mis-alignment is normally at 2 times running speed. Sometimes vane pass vibration, assuming that there is no other problems with the impeller, can be reduced by reducing the impeller diameter or trimming back the volute lip(s), both of which can affect the pump's performance curve. These fixes will change the angle that the flow attacks the volute lip(s) and reduce the vane pass energy. Also, check the pump's resonate frequency by doing a bong (bump) test with the pump not running, that is if your vibration analyzer is capable of such test. If the resonate frequency is at vane pass you will need to stiffen or soften the pump either with bracing of the pump or the base plate.

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#7

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/19/2011 9:56 PM

First of all, I'm sorry I responded too long due to internet connection problem.
PWSlack : there are 2 pumps on 2 different foundation (1 pump running, 1 pump stand-by). When the vibration data taken, the pump was running alone (single running). So there's no effect from the other pump.
lyn : I planned to measure the pump B's impeller (pump B is the good one). But with the high vibration, I was afraid that pump A condition become worse when we disassembly pump B. I've measured the impeller diameter of Pump A and found that the diameter was on rated design (based on datasheet).
Spinco : the speed is 3000 rpm and the impeller diameter is 358.7 mm (shroud head side) and 371.5 (shroud casing side). I think the problem is not unbalance since there's no 1x rpm frequency on the spectrum shown as the dominant spectrum.
DPWC : Later I will upload the spectrums. I will check the internal parts of the pump later but I want to do running test one more time before disassemblying the pump.

pritam : ok I will check on that.
Grand Poobah : since I'm not familiar with bump test, I'll find out first about this test method. Maybe you could give me a brief explanation about it? Thank you for your suggestion.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/20/2011 9:27 AM

If your vibration analyzer has the capability, you set the analyzer to record a single-shot vibration spectrum. You attach your vibration probe to the pump, usually in the direction of the vibration you are concerned with. Using a moderately heavy soft faced mallet, you strike the pump on the opposite side of the pump from the probe. The analyzer's recorded spectrum strongest/highest spike, will be at the pump's resonate frequency.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/21/2011 12:48 AM

OK I got the point. I will do this later by using Enpac 2500. Thank you

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#9

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

10/20/2011 8:57 PM


This is the vibration spectrum of pump A.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: Vane Pass Frequency Vibration Problem

08/25/2017 5:41 AM

Sir Anrava, did you get the solution? because i also get the same problem, pls give the information about the solution!.

Thank you

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Users who posted comments:

alardhi18 (1); DPWC (1); Grand Poobah (2); lyn (1); pritam (1); PWSlack (1); sir anrava (3); Spinco (1)

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