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The Clone Paradox

01/23/2012 9:04 PM

This is a spin off of Einsteins long debated twin paradox that I thought of. Two planets that are 5,123,122,752 miles away from each other and that have the same rotation as earth are each sent a care package from a neutral observer that lives in between and in the middle of the two planets. they both receive the care package at the same time as observed by the neutral observer. Inside the care package they both find some genetic material, instructions on how to grow a sentient being from the genetic material, a count down timer that was synchronised with the one in the other care package before transport and a quantum phone that using quantum entangled particles allows for instant communication between the two distant planets. Now because each of the planets is rotating at 2pi radians every 23 hours and 56 minuets and because the distance between the two planets is 5,123,122,752 miles it can be mathematically calculated that each of the planets should be observing the other planet going at about twice the speed of light (186,282 MPH * 2). We also know however that the laws of physics won't allow for this so each will observe the other one going slower. So my question is this when the two clones call each other on the respective quantum phones who will have aged more? also since they will be talking to people whose perspective time frames light has not yet reached them will they be comunicating with the future?

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#1

Re: The Clone Paradox

01/23/2012 9:16 PM

I forgot to mention that the clones are created at the same time as measured by the synchronized timers.

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#2
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/23/2012 9:17 PM

Will they be calling home to ask for more money?

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#3
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/23/2012 9:20 PM

no just calling each other on holidays so they don't have to drag themselves to the family reunions.

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#4

Re: The Clone Paradox

01/23/2012 9:44 PM

Since they are clones, they are relative to each other....

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#5

Re: The Clone Paradox

01/23/2012 10:48 PM

'..it can be mathematically calculated that each of the planets should be observing the other planet going at about twice the speed of light (186,282 MPH * 2)...'

...which you should mathematically double check your calculation......186,282MPH * 2 is merely 1/30th of the speed of light in a vacuum.

I do like your outlook. Next time I feel like people aren't moving fast enough, I'll just distance myself and spin.

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#7
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/24/2012 12:11 AM

More like 1/1800 the speed of light?

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#8
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/24/2012 2:28 AM

Right you are... i should have checked my own calculation, but in my head I only accounted for 60 seconds in an hour...

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#9
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/24/2012 2:37 AM

I'm Sorry I did my calculations in excel and copied the wrong number 186282 is the speed of light in miles per second 670,615,200 is the calculation in miles per hour but the distance calculation is still correct those planets would be going at twice the speed of light if you negated time dilation.

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#10
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/24/2012 10:25 AM

"those planets would be going at twice the speed of light" where? why?

All planets are moving in their orbits, and their suns orbit the center of their galaxy, and their galaxy moves in the universe. If these planets are in the same solar system, they are only moving relative to each other for your calculations.

There is nothing in our solar system moving any where near these speeds, relative to the other objects in this solar system.

Relative to other galaxies is another story.

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#11
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/25/2012 1:33 AM

Yep, nothing that we can communicate with (even by "quantum phones") has a speed exceeding c relative to us.

If redJohn75766's beings have 'instant communication' technology, they are communicating only into the present, not the past or future. Our present technology communicates into the future, with 'into the past' probably impossible by any foreseeable technology.

-J

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#14
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/25/2012 4:59 PM

What about quantum entanglement I know that quibits don't exactly translate to bits but it is a form of data and so far the observed changes in partical spin seem to ignor distance. As I understand it if theis is incorrect please let me know.

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#13
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/25/2012 4:55 PM

Imagine a train is traveling east around the world along the equator with the sun directly above at 330.26 MPH (equator is 7926.41 miles in diameter 7926.41 miles/24 hours). Now answer this is the train moving around the earth or the earth moving beneath the train or both. Answer: It all depends on your frame of reference the people on the earth would see the train moving, the people on the train would see the earth moving, the people on the moon would see them both moving and the people on the sun would see them both moving in a completely different way... so who is "Right"? Now take the same scenario with a much bigger circumference and plant the train in an approximately fixed point with relation to the size of the diameter and spin the earth you don't have to move the earth at very man rad per hour to observe a huge translation in relative miles per hour.

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#6

Re: The Clone Paradox

01/23/2012 10:49 PM

What causes this high speed? Escape velocity is around 17,500 mph, so the Earth's equator must be going something like that. No where near light speed, or half of it, even.

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#12

Re: The Clone Paradox

01/25/2012 1:33 PM

Ah, these wonderful hypothetical questions ...

reminds me of the the "speed-o-light-bicycle" I designed in high school

Kind regards ...

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#15

Re: The Clone Paradox

01/25/2012 9:44 PM

Are you talking about a situation like a planet on the far side of the sun, or two planets in different solar systems that have the same orbital period (one day)? Neither would be very close to your scenario (earth is 93,000,000 miles from the sun, and the nearest star is 24,000,000,000,000 miles.), so where did you get that number? In any case with instant communication they would be talking in the present.

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#16
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/25/2012 10:02 PM

I'm talking about an orbital period of one day and the two planets are not thought to be in the same solar system not even necessarily the same galaxy. The idea is that the two planets are far apart and spinning (we will call them planet a and planet b for clarity) and from the perspective of the observers on either planet the universe (including the other planet) is rotating around them at a rate of 2pi radians every 24 hours. At that rate of rotation it would aper to people on planet a that planet b is rotating around them at a rate equal to twice the speed of light. Even though conventionally we would just say that planet a is spinning there does in fact exist a frame of reference in which planet a is stationary and the rest of the universe is spinning around it and any object in the universe can be calculated to be moving around planet a at a rate of 2*pi*d/24, where d is the distance from planet a to any given object. In the case of planet b d = 5,123,122,752.

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#17
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Re: The Clone Paradox

01/26/2012 7:05 AM

redJohn75766, are you thinking of the images of distant planes and stars that seem to move at >c because of the rotation of our own planet?

If so, these are not movements of objects, just movements of images in a rotating frame of reference. They can go at any speed 'faster than light'. Think about projecting an image on a distant screen. How fast can you make the image (or spot) move across the screen by rotating the projector?

-J

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#18

Re: The Clone Paradox

01/26/2012 4:48 PM

...when the two clones call each other on the respective quantum phones who will have aged more?

The older one

Will they be comunicating with the future?

No (they will have exceeded their inter-galactic wireless plan minutes).

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#19

Re: The Clone Paradox

01/27/2012 2:43 PM

when the two clones call each other on the respective quantum phones who will have aged more?

Neither, this is a symmetrical situation.

...since they will be talking to people whose perspective time frames light has not yet reached them...

Untrue. Light will take the path of the neutral observer. The communication is at the speed of light. There will be the associated delay for the light to travel both ways. The fact that the planets are spinning does not change the distance between them.

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