Field Dosimetry In Mixed Radiation Field Environments

Does he not have a Geiger counter? If he's feeling sick, my advice is don't go near the site until he has a good understanding of the hazards involved.

No he doesn't, and no I do not think he fully understands the dangers which is what i'm trying to impress upon him. And Geiger counters are generally only sensitive to Gamma and Beta radiation, SOME can detect Alpha radiation and none detect neutron radiation that I am aware of. Therein lies the problem.

I would go with a A thermoluminescent dosimeter...

I don't think that TLD's are sensitive to Neutrons, but I could be wrong.

"

• The TLD is normally used to obtain your official dose of record. TLDs are processed routinely at the end of each calendar quarter. Your TLD may be retrieved for special processing more frequently if necessary. TLDs are sensitive to beta, gamma, and neutron radiation."

http://www.jlab.org/div_dept/train/rad_guide/monitor.html

problem I see is that they are not self-reading and they would have to be sent off for reading. only tells him there is a problem after the fact.

I would add one of these...

http://www.donwolf.com/radiation_detectors.html

and one of these...

clarification, it is an open pit mine. so far it has been worked with hand tools, he is wanting to move up to more automated production this season.

Good point Fred, it is at high altitude as it is, so oxygen is already low, and these areas are bowl shaped below grade so there could be heavier than air gasses collecting in the bowl. He may need to set up blowers to circulate air in the work area or get a scott airpack or maybe just an oxygen bottle...

Your friend might want to install inside the cabins of every earth mover an Oxygen Deficiency Monitor like this. For I'm certain that an oxygen bottle or Scott air-pack large enough for a full day of work will be impractical. So detecting when supplemental oxygen is needed will be important. I do not know what mining equipment safety standards apply but I expect that they follow these ideas.

You are working in an environment troubled by alpha neutron radiation.

Learn a lot about that here:
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/ocas/pdfs/tibs/or-t24-r0.pdf

It is certain that protection is required. Measurement, while important, comes after protection.

Mark Bingham
Alpha Neutron a business unit of
Relativity PL

I strongly suspect that his "ill feeling" may be due to something other than radiation. I would tend to think it is some sort of gas, or perhaps even psychosomatic. Especially, if he has experienced this phenomenon more than once with no lasting accumulative effects.

A person can receive a lethal dose of ionizing radiation, and not even feel ill for at least a day, then things start to fall apart.

I would be very interested to hear what the final verdict is.

I don't know how fine the current breathing mask is ...

Keeping it simple:

1. Alpha particles generally won't penetrate skin, but are easily ingested/ inhaled.

2. Alpha particles can be scrubbed from the skin with soap under running water.

2. Alpha particles are transported/ transferred on clothing, vehicle dust etc...

3. Alpha particles don't irradiate, they contaminate (think dirty)

4. For safety, your friend needs to commission a radiation survey of the area.

For dosimetry...http://seintl.com/ offers some choices.

You've simplified to the point of providing false, misleading information.

Alpha particles will not penetrate the skin from their own kinetic energy. However, if the alpha producing source (contaminant) gets inside the body by ingestion or puncture then the alpha particles will do the maximum amount of tissue damage. So it now depends on where in the body are the sources.

Alpha particles need not be scrubbed from lying on the skin because they will quickly acquire electrons and become atoms of Helium. Most alpha producing contaminants can be easily washed from the skin but scrubbing can embed small quantities of contaminants into the living cells of the skin. Thus converting an annoyance into a hazard.

Alpha sources do irradiate a small volume of air space with alpha particles. Contamination is the greater risk though.

In most scenarios, a radiation survey will be the correct resolution for all sources will be apparent. Mining is one of the scenarios that a radiation survey will produce a false sense of safety. As earth is moved a different layer of material will be exposed. Because of this continually changing environment, personal dosimetry capable of doing an unofficial survey and long term cumulative personal dosimetry is essential.

S.E. International does make some nice products.

Accepted...perhaps 'scrubbed' was too strong (I didn't intend a nail brush)...

I wasn't sure at what level to pitch the response, except to assume the miner in question has no specific knowledge.

First thing your friend should do (before doing anything else, including mining) is to have a radiological survey (by a certified laboratory) conducted in the area where he's been experiencing the health problems.

See my reply to Hilton.

Sorry Fred, I missed it in my haste this morning......lack of Java for the brainbox! LOL

Unless he is melting the Beryllium and thus producing airborne fumes or dry grinding pure beryllium so as to produce fine airborne dust, berylliosis or chronic beryllium disease (CBD), would not be an issue here. As the others have pointed out if it's not a case of radiation poisoning then it's more probably a case of "bad air" quality caused by the bowl shaped area and other possible releases of underground gases being retained there. Could even be radon gas which is found near uranium deposits even in the northeast sections of the USA.

If it was radiation poisoning he would probably be losing some hair by now.

I hope that he's on the lookout for some good Aquamarine crystals since they should be found in his Beryl deposits.

I would expect there would be beryl dust in the soil would there not be?

It is the beryllium that is hazardous to health not beryl. See extract from Wikipedia below:

"Because of its high affinity for oxygen at elevated temperatures, and its ability to reduce water when its oxide film is removed, the extraction of beryllium from its compounds is a difficult process. Electrolysis of a mixture of beryllium fluoride and sodium fluoride was used to isolate beryllium during the 19th century. The metal's high melting point makes this process more energy-consuming than corresponding processes used for the alkali metals. Early in the 20th century, the production of beryllium by the thermal decomposition of beryllium iodide was investigated following the success of a similar process for the production of zirconium, but this process proved to be uneconomical for volume production.^[20]

Pure beryllium metal did not become readily available until 1957, even though it had been used as an alloying metal to harden and toughen copper much earlier. Beryllium could be produced by reducing beryllium compounds such as beryllium chloride with metallic potassium or sodium. Currently most beryllium is produced by reducing beryllium fluoride with purified magnesium."

An awful lot of people are wearing Aquamarine rings and jewelry and aquamarine is a form of beryl. There would not be beryllium dust laying about which would be a health hazard.

BeO dust is an inhalation hazard, (so sayeth the MSDS for high temp surface mount resistors which use BeO as their substrate.) Beryl is a bit more complex: Be₃Al₂(SiO₃)_6, IARC classifies Beryl Ore as a Group 1 carcinogen, same as if it were beryllium. US National Toxicology Program lists it as a reasonably anticipated one. So it is reasonable to conclude that Beryllosis is at least a possibility.

BeO stands for Beryllium Oxide which is a manufactured product I believe as opposed to a naturally occurring item. "Beryllium oxide can be prepared by calcining (roasting) beryllium carbonate, dehydrating beryllium hydroxide or igniting the metal"-Wikipedia

Does not sound like naturally occurring in an open pit.

I doubt that symptoms of Berylliosis would have appeared as quickly as you seem to indicate nor would go away just because he left the area. Like asbestosis, when You got it, You got it, no matter where you are at the time nor does it get better just by leaving a given area.

There are many things listed on MSDS's as cacinogens. Chrome and nickel for example but we all use stainless steel cookware which is in general 18 chrome 8 nickel. Copper for another but copper is a necessary element for our bodies and is put into multi-vitamins with minerals. How many people expire daily from drinking water out of copper pipes/tubing?

If you ate steak with a fatty edge for breakfast, lunch and dinner every day you would die a lot sooner than drinking water out of copper pipes. Why isn't there an MSDS for Steak?

Spinco, I didn't even imply that beryllosis was the cause of his discomfort, my concern was Neutron radiation due to alpha bombardment of the Beryllium in the ore. I further stated that he should be wearing a mask to prevent inhalation of the dust, which would not only include the Beryl dust but any radioisotopes that may be present as well.

Here is a little additional info:

"Chronic Beryllium Disease

Breathing beryllium particles can lead to scarring of the lungs. This is known as chronic beryllium disease-CBD for short. It can be treated, but it cannot be cured. It is sometimes fatal.

CBD is primarily a lung disease. But it may also affect the lymph nodes, skin, spleen, liver, kidneys, and heart.

Among construction workers at DOE facilities, less than 1% have been found to have CBD. In jobs where people inhaled the most beryllium (such as machinists in beryllium operations), 10 to 14% of the workers have gotten chronic beryllium disease.

CBD can take years to develop after the first exposure to beryllium. The average time is 10 to 15 years. Sometimes it takes as long as 30 years to show up.

Chronic beryllium disease can cause persistent coughing, shortness of breath, chest pain, fever, night sweats, blood in the sputum (saliva, mucus, and other discharges that can be "coughed up"), rapid heart beat, loss of appetite, and weight loss. If you have been exposed to beryllium and you have any of these symptoms, you should tell your doctor."

The machinists mentioned were generally machining PURE Beryllium and not alloys containing some beryllium which is used as a hardening and strengthening addition.

Good information. It would be even better information if we knew where you found this. That is unless you're providing your own expertise here.

Here is the source of my last post:

http://www.elcosh.org/en/document/560/d000542/beryllium-fact-sheet.html?utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=adwords&utm_campaign=adwords&gclid=CLu1ucWO7q0CFaYSNAodOAj85A

As to my own expertise on the subject:

Ran a foundry that poured .65% to 2% BeCu for 27 years

Attended several seminars given by Brush-Wellman, our main supplier.

Investigated many aspects as to toxicity, safety etc. to insure my workers safety and this is before there was an internet to make it easier to check up facts.

Had air sampling tests run in compliance with EPA, NJDEP and OSHA and never came up with issues.

So I feel that I do have some familiarity with the subject but the previous posting came from others but the facts did agree with what I know.

One of the facts not brought out in that excerpt is that 3 conditions are generally required for berylliosis;

1) The person must be Sensitive to Beryllium Exposure. Not everyone is, sort of like smoking. One person smokes for 30 years and never gets lung cancer. Their spouse gets lung cancer from the second hand smoke. So the mechanism is not the same as asbestos where sensitivity is not an issue. The little hook like tails of the asbestos particles latch onto anyone's lung surface that it comes in contact with.

2) The Beryllium MUST be airborne and Respirable. In many cases the hairs in your nostrils and your body safety mechanisms remove a large part of the airborne dust. It is generally the very smallest of particles that gets through.

3) The Exposure must be to Significant Concentration of the Airborne Beryllium. Most cases reported were from workers in the smelters producing the pure Beryllium. Even workers where the solid Beryllium ingot was added to the copper or aluminum being alloyed were not affected.

Machinists dry grinding PURE Beryllium where inadequate dust capture was found were at risk. That's why Be is generally wet ground. The grinding dust is hazardous when airborne, not when submerged in liquid.

Still think "better safe than sorry" and assume it is an inhalation hazard since you won't know for 30 years whether it is or not or whether you are sensitive or not...

Same goes for Radon gas causing lung cancer unfortunately and I would assume that there must be a lot of that around that pit. Radon is a very heavy gas and would tend to collect as it does in basements, hence radon gas testers are always placed in basements or crawl spaces. Don't suppose that the concentration could be so heavy so as to dilute the presence of air hence O2. In which case could he be suffering from oxygen deprivation and when he leaves the area and starts receiving a normal concentration of O2 he feels better. Maybe recommend to him about getting a radon Test kit or two and see what results he gets.

There's an added risk with radon gas getting into the lungs. It is such a heavy gas that it will not be expelled by normal respiration. I suspect that this discussion of radon gas is just another unintended tangent to this thread. I'd be very surprised if the dominant gas in the low oxygen regions of this mine is dominated by radon gas. I suspect more the common mining gas concerns of methane, carbon monoxide, etc.

Simply making that observation since the initial thread was that it was 'rich in uranium and radium" and radon is a byproduct of these. Also a later point was that it was an "open pit" so I somewhat discounted the presence of methane since it is a light gas that should quickly dissipate.

From Wikipedia:

Isotopes Main article: Isotopes of radon The radium or uranium series.

Radon has no stable isotopes. However, 36 radioactive isotopes have been characterized, with their atomic masses ranging from 193 to 228.^[21] The most stable isotope is ²²²Rn, which is a decay product of ²²⁶Ra, a decay product of ²³⁸U.^[22] Among the daughters of ²²²Rn is also the highly unstable isotope ²¹⁸Rn.

Rn belongs to the radium and uranium-238 decay chain, and has a half-life of 3.8235 days.

The danger of high exposure to radon in mines, where exposures reaching 1,000,000 Bq/m³ can be found, has long been known.

Radon mostly appears with the decay chain of the radium and uranium series (²²²Rn), and marginally with the thorium series (²²⁰Rn). The element emanates naturally from the ground, and some building materials, all over the world, wherever traces of uranium or thorium can be found, and particularly in regions with soils containing granite or shale, which have a higher concentration of uranium.

radon concentration decreases very quickly when the distance from the production area increases. Radon concentration varies greatly with season and atmospheric conditions. For instance, it has been shown to accumulate in the air if there is a meteorological inversion and little wind.^[56]

Natural radon concentrations in Earth's atmosphere are so low that radon-rich water in contact with the atmosphere will continually lose radon by volatilization. Hence, ground water has a higher concentration of ²²²Rn than surface water, because radon is continuously produced by radioactive decay of ²²⁶Ra present in rocks. "

Wonder if he's drinking water from a spring in that area?

I discounted NG/Methane as well, but Propane is a possibility. H2S is possible, but he would have smelled it so I don't think it was that either. Radon is conceivable I suppose, but probably not in concentrations high enough to displace O2.

Radon is very dense, and is known to concentrate in low areas. It was known as 'suffocating gas' to miners working in ventilated mines in the 40's.

If the OP's friend is working in an unventilated low lying confined space in an area known to have significant uranium deposits, and has felt sick in that space, it is not safe to reenter the space without ventilation or some sort of breathing apparatus.

The danger is two fold. The first is that Oxygen concentrations fall somewhere below 19% and he falls to a lower position where even less O2 is available... The second is that if there is enough Radon to displace enough Oxygen to be noticed, then he is inhaling a significant amount of Radon decay daughters. The resulting decay chain of high energy alphas and betas in his chest creates a much high risk of things like lung cancer, especially if he is a smoker.

I agree that methane won't pool like a gas with a specific gravity greater than 1.00 (air is defined here as 1.00) but methane has a specific gravity of 0.5537. So I can see a bubble or plume of methane coming out of the ground and displacing briefly all of the air in that bubble. Thus making someone standing in what was air a minute ago now feel ill but when they return to the same spot and everything is fine.

PPE and dosimeter in a cage.....