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External Pressure and Balancing Forces on Ducting/Pipes

01/26/2012 5:50 AM

I am installing 1400mm ducting onto a flexible and the other side welded onto a vapour inlet duct. i ahve been told useing a flexi i will be putting external forces onto the ducting thus will have to allow for a greater load on the floor steels. i understand due to flexi contracting at 1mBar vacuum there will be a significant pull on the flexi. the flexible i have at the moment is:

and the ducting it will connect onto is:

How can i actually determin what the forces will be, if you look at the flexi it has some support rods, they would usually stop the flexi collapsing to much but can i use this a justification to say theyre will be hardly any movement.

the reason why i am putting the flexi in was due to expansion of vessel and ducting, but it is turning out to be a nightmare.

does anyone have any recommendations on calculating the actaul forces, or advise on the flexi or othe rtypes of connections???

Some advice i have already recieved.

Depending on your ducting layout you can get unbalanced forces, and flexibles cause real problems.

Imagine this you have a length of 60" ducting, capped off at both ends and the whole thing is on sliding supports, not bolted down. You now pull 1 mbar vacuum on the inside of your ducting and what happens? Nothing, you have a rigid structure and all forces are balanced.

Now you put a flexible in the middle of the ducting and pull the vacuum again, what happens? The flexible is compressed because the forces on the capped off ends do not balance each other until the flexible is compressed sufficiently to transfer the required force through it.

This however is not the purpose of the flexible, it is to allow for minor movement due to thermal changes etc. and the flexible should not have major stresses like this applied to it.

So we need to bolt down the two ends of the duct so the unbalanced forces cannot be transmitted through the flexible. What force does the holding down arrangement need to with stand? Answer = cross sectional area by pressure = 60" x 60" x Phi / 4 x 14.5 psi = nearly 41,000 lbs, about 18.5 ton.

In the case of a 90 degree bend with flexes each end and the bend unsupported you would get two 18.5 ton forces acting at right angles to give about 26 ton at an angle of 45 degrees.

Bottom line is it depends on your ducting layout and design, especially if there are flexibles, and is the equipment at either end fixed down and capable of absorbing the forces.

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#1

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 5:54 AM

Is the 1mBar gauge, or absolute?

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#2

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 6:09 AM

The 1 mbar is absolute so almost full vacuum.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 6:27 AM

Then the advice in italics in the original post is sound.

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#4

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 8:52 AM

The calculation in the advice you posted with your question is incorrect. 1 millibar (mbar) = 0.0145 pounds per square inch (psi), not 14.5 psi. The result of the calc. is ≈41 pounds (lbs). That's a big diference from 18.5 tons.

That belows type flex appears heavy duty enough to handle 41 lbs, but I would rely on specification, not my observations.

Are the rods with the threaded ends with nuts for installation, or are they there as restraints? If they are restraints aren't they suficient to keep the belows from compressing at 1 mbar and still allow for thermal growth? It looks like the outside nuts are backed off for this purpose.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 9:01 AM

Talking to myself: I know there will be differential pressure ≈ 18.5 tons, but if movement of the belows is restricted, the force will be applied to the restraints.

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#9
In reply to #4

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 10:36 AM

That would only be correct if the 1mBar were gauge pressure and not absolute pressure as the original poster has stated in #2.

If it were 1 mbar gauge, then a chunk of hose and two Jubilee clips would be all that is needed, and one would be dealing with flimsy ducting, not f...-off pipe flexible couplings; look at all those bolts!

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#6

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 9:02 AM

That Would be correct for the forces on the inside of the duct, but its atmospheric pressure and external forces applied when the flexi contracts putting weight on the big ducting and the steelwork supporting it if i am correct.

i am more worried about the support structure, steels as i have put a new floor in and needs to withstand any additionals. if there is a force of 41000lbs as first suggested i would need some more supporting beams for my ducting.

Correct me if i am wrong!!

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 10:32 AM
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#7

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 9:06 AM

Yes you would be correct about the restraints if i dont support the ducting but im am pretty sure they will not be able to handle that weight as usually thats not what they are designed for.

but originally this expansion joint is being used between a large ejector 10m + long into a vertical barometric condenser, looking at the stay bars the ejector must expand quite abit so i dont understand the concept of the restraints if thats what they are there for. i originally thought the hole point of a flexi is free movement???!!!

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: External pressure and balancing forces on ducting/pipes

01/26/2012 10:38 AM

See #6. If necessary, hire a specialised piping designer; it will be worth it.

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