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Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/17/2012 7:03 AM

I am currently working on designing of a fire tube boiler. I have to calculate the heating surface area. I've heard a rule of thumb that 1 sq ft of area is required to produce 7 lbs of steam. I am opting to go through a standard procedure of calculations. any help fellows!!

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#1

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/17/2012 9:21 AM

7lbs of steam. Over what period of time, Guvnor?

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#3
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Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/17/2012 11:44 PM

Over what period of time
That is what i am trying to find out. Mostly we work on per hour basis. But definitely that's not the answer.

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#2

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/17/2012 3:37 PM

I hope this is just a Homework assignment, all done on paper or a CAD modeling. And, if you do prototype your design, I would highly recommend surrounding your boiler with a ballistic material for personnel safety until all safety features are thoroughly tested.

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#4
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Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/18/2012 12:01 AM

Nope! We make it happen in real life i am an engineer in a boiler mfg. company. Working on design modifications.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/18/2012 3:59 PM

Nope... 7 lbs/per square foot is just right. Use that number for all of your boiler designs !!!

I have a few questions.....

- Is this the first boiler you have designed ?

- Will your boiler have safety valves ? If so will you also be designing them ?

- How about low water cutouts ?

- What will be the distance between your boiler and the nearest occupied building ?

- Is there anyone in your company to whom you can ask questions ? ( your MBA boss doesn't count)

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#9
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Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/20/2012 3:03 AM

Actually not designing completely. Modifying rather.

- Yes 1st Boiler

- We are using a conductive probe system consisting of 4 Probes (Indicating water levels at HH,H,L and LL). At 'L' there is an alarm and at 'LL' boiler get cut off from heat source. But still there's enough water to prevent the tubes from getting damaged while they are cooled.

-Boilers are used placed in Boiler Houses. That depends! if we are going for a WHRB that needs to be placed near the Generator exhaust.

- Obviously, our Most respectful "Manager".

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#10
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Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/20/2012 5:04 AM

i forgot one!

-It has 2 safety valves. Surely they are also designed as per ASME SEC I (PG-67).

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#7
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Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/19/2012 9:48 AM

You are from Pakistan and i am too. Please name which Boiler Mnf. you work for?

Greshams/DDFC/DESCON/Solarkaz etc., etc.

You got to be kidding. Tell your Owners (if they are really Authorized Boiler Manufacturers) that this is Mr.Duja.

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#6

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/19/2012 9:44 AM

How can you design a boiler when you are not authorized? You want to design rule of the thumb??? 1 sft is not 7 lbs it is 6.9 lbs/hr as per ANSI standards of 1 BoHP = 34.5 lbs/hr steam and 5 sft/BoHP. This is 10 lbs/hr as per British standards and 8.3 as per German standards and 8.2 as per Italian. Go buy the standard's Book first. Then go to your Boiler Office to apply for a license first to make Boilers. Do you think it is child's play?

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/20/2012 2:20 AM

Mr. Duja,

For your kind information Ducon is 37 years junior than the company i am working for.Licensed, authorized,registered and recognized.Now FYI

In New Zealand, boiler horsepower is a function of the heat transfer area in the boiler, and a boiler horsepower relates to 17 ft² of heating surface

Heat Transfer Area(Sq.ft) / 17 = BoHP

In the USA and Australia the readily accepted definition of a boiler horsepower is the amount of energy required to evaporate 34.5 lb of water at 212°F atmospheric conditions

a BoHP x 24.5 lb/h = (a x 34.5) lb/h

This is essentially the same as a 'from and at' rating, so using feedwater at lower temperatures and steam at higher pressures will reduce the amount of steam generated.

In practice a BoHP figure of 28 to 30 lb / h would be a more realistic maximum continuous rating, taking into account the steam pressure and average feedwater temperatures.

Do let me know if you need a STANDARD'S BOOK. I have all of them. Have a look at my question again. i think you'r not that bad in reading english. And most respectfully next time you try'n become oversmart. BE careful.

Cheerz!

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#11
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Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/20/2012 4:36 PM

I know who you work for - Gresham's Eastern. Passed out from NED 2010 and joined them last year. There is nothing you can do there to design "Boilers". Greshams is doing that last 50+ years and propably by now must be having over 800 Boilers in successful operation alone in Pakistan. The last Boiler "Powermaster" they made on 1 sft/7lbs was long before you were born. Now they make Wanson-design steam generators and Ygnis Revese Flue Boilers both + 15~18 lbs/sft and representing Garioni Naval Italy. Your initial question of designing boilers at 7lbs/sft was misleading. Correct that first.

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#12
In reply to #8

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/20/2012 6:55 PM

If your so well versed and have all the Standard's books, why are you here asking this type of question?? You came here for help, we did not solicit you!! Your attitude is nothing short of arrogance. You said, " i am an engineer in a boiler mfg. company. Working on design modifications." If, you are an Engineer as you claim, then you should be able to decipher the Standard's for boiler designs. Also, the Standard practices of thoroughly testing a modified design.

Your arrogance, makes you a very dangerous person to work around.

You are a very scary person!!!!

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/20/2012 11:16 PM

dj95401 Thanks for the support. He is hardly one year's experience passing out in 2010 joining Greshams last Feb. 2011. Greshams' owner Mr.Suhalil Hussain respects me like a young brother and I look up to him as a mentor. Over 2 decades we are in realtionship.The owner's son Tawfiq calls me Uncle and once I was a 50-50 partner in Sales & marketing Garioni Boilers in Pakistan. This fresh guy comes in so arrogrant that he is not worth communicating with. Really appreciated your support and thank you once again.

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/20/2012 11:48 PM

Mr Dujan,

I in any way didn't mean to be arrogant. And if you at any time had felt that; i apologize for that. I literally have no concern who you are. Again, I was here just for a simple question. Nobody is a perfect engineer. There are always few things which one always wants to clarify and that all. So, Don't take it personal. try to entertain in a professional way. I hope you can still help me out. Thanks.

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#17
In reply to #13

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/21/2012 7:43 PM

No problem ducon, this guy is going to kill himself and anybody around him, with that kind of attitude. I wonder if he has heard of 'The Darwin Awards' ??

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#14
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Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/20/2012 11:33 PM

I absolutely have no idea why this perception is being taken that i am arguing or being arrogant. This is actually not the reality. I answered a question that i am an engineer. No act of clairvoyance. Moreover, if an engineer is supposed to know all. then there would have been no forums like this. This would have been more friendly and worth appreciating if people try to solve the problems rather questioning the credibilities.

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#16
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Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/21/2012 2:07 AM

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ainul-hassan/32/368/543

Passing out 2010, 2 months internship at PIA(Pakistan international Airlines), joining Greshams Eastern Pvt. Ltd., February 2011 with only 13 months experience yet WARNING me not be become over smart and to BE careful !!! Your Owners or your Head of the Mechanical Engineering Department of NED Engineering will be very sorry since your action reflects their image too. Over 30+ NED/Mehran Engineers within a span of 2 decades have had had their Final Projects completed with my help(some are today big Engineering Managers) and, yet you have the nerve to disrespect and claim that you are not arrogant!!! I cannot forgive you but only pity you. You made your day by telling off Duja, be happy with it.

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#18

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/25/2012 2:15 AM

Mr.Anul Hassan - You seem to have disappeared. FYI my elder brother Mr.Kashaf Duja and co-proprietor DUCON Energy Management Systems (who is highly regarded as a thermal expert & computer wizard by your CEO) centralized all Greshams Eastern manufactured Models & Types of Boilers & Ancillaries on the data bank of your H.O PC as:

1. For each type Firetube/ Watertube Boiler/etc (computerzed in separate folder) all different parts As Built Drawings Folder can be opened by anybody and have all as built drawing for manufacturing.

2. Simultaneously all as built drawings for separate take-off parts (required BOQ) is also indicated for Workshop & Stores.

3. For Stores all required items incoming Imported/Local is scheduled.

4. Critical Path Method for all workshop is given for all manufacturing as regards time/man power required for manufactured Boiler/s concerned.

5. In a way that if a Boiler was ordered by a Client all Design-people (even a 13 month old like you) has to enter the as built folder, take off the BOQ and inform Stores of items in-hand as per schedule.

6. The manufacturing Department will coordinate with the Design people and Stores and complete/manufacture the required Boiler/s accordingly as well as give exact tentative date of delivery.

7. The HO Stores can also calculate the days of man power/materials/imported or local parts with Total cost (actual) of imported/local parts relate to each Boiler/s.

For Example:

For one type of Boiler/Model, separately in one folder :

As built Drawings/man power/parts/time etc:

a. Economizer.

b. Stand

c. Shell

d. Heat Exchanger

e. Pipes required/size/numbers.

f. Burner.

g. Deaerator

etc. etc.

We/Ducon are your Software Designers that you simply sit and click to get all results on all Boilers under manufacturing yet with just 13 months of experience, a fresh off-the-boat 2010 engineer dares to be so arrogant with no respect. Please ask your Mr.Desmond/ your CEO Mr.Suhail Hussain our technical background before you ever do the same with any other person.

We CR4 Members respect each other and do not like this attitude since we have not asked you to solicit with us in the first place.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/25/2012 3:02 AM

PS

- "Obvioulsy, our most respectable " Manager"."

You need not be sarcastic about Mr.Nasir . He has been with Greshams over 3 decades and considered as one of the finest Boiler manufacturing-engineer . His experience alone is far more than your age. I respect and regard him as a mentor too.

I feel you have had enough and more than you can ever chew. You just rubbed the wrong edge in your arrogance.

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/25/2012 3:41 AM

You seem a little steamed there ducon. Pressure relief valve having a hissy fit and all....

Anul has upset you somehow and I didn't see where or why.....

If, as you say We/Ducon are your Software Designers.... then doesn't that make Mr Anul Hassan (aka Sir) your customer? Just asking.....

Sometimes a customer "needs to be told" but there is a limit.

Relax, take a deep breath, exhale slowly, repeat..... be excellent to each other.

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#21
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Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/25/2012 3:56 AM

Last line on the Thread # 9 made me mad . We work as associates . To me he is just a junior employee as an associate. Txs. i am relaxed now.

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#23
In reply to #18

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

10/10/2012 1:54 PM

Hello Bro!

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#22

Re: Heating Surface Area of Fire Tube Boiler

02/26/2012 1:01 PM

Dear Mr.Ainul Hassan

The data given by you, i.e. "1 sq ft of area is required to produce 7 lbs of steam" IS CERTAINLY VERY HIGH - leading to problems.

It will be in the order of 5 Lbs. per Sq.ft. There are plenty of CR4 Members who will be giving their views.

STANDARD PROCEDURE means you have to go by the EQUATIONS INVOLVING HEAT FLUX, LOG-MEAN TEMPERATURE, THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY, GRASHOFF NUMBER, etc.

DHAYANANDHAN.S

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