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Participant

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2

For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/07/2007 7:34 PM

For less than 1MW which type of power generation is preferable, is gasifier plant or steam power plant.

If it is gasifier plant .How can we prove this?

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Associate

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: michigan
Posts: 54
Good Answers: 1
#1

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/08/2007 8:39 AM

This is a very vague question because selecting a proper power plant is open ended.

Im not a plant operator, however, I have worked on case studies for both types. In my experience, both plants operate in the same way, with the exception of the steam plant where steam does the work in the turbine.

So as you can see, a steam plant has an added step in which a fuel is combusted to heat up water to superheated steam levels which is then sent to a turbine where it produces work.

Capital costs for each basic plant overall probably run around the same, so the major concern is the fuel and water costs.

Maybe someone else can fill in the numbers but this is for a basic plant.

There are many add ons that can be utilized to save energy though. To increase overall efficiencies, heat exchangers can be implemented which can be used to heat up inlet streams with the outlet streams from the turbine. This is why it's very open ended because many design varities exists. Also, blowdown may need to be considered if you are using a steam plant with a boiler.

So I would prefer a gasifing plant becuase there are less steps. Steam plants have more areas for losses in efficiencies since you have a "middle man" doing the work.

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Anonymous Poster
#2
In reply to #1

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/08/2007 3:54 PM

Gas where abundant is the way to go, they can be on stand by to generate for exess demand and because they run up quickly and can be stopped fairly fast they are now the prefered way forward. they are also less poluting. Cheaper over all to run.

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Power-User

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 157
Good Answers: 1
#4
In reply to #2

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/08/2007 11:46 PM

On the other hand,A solar operated steam generator can produce the needed steam flow to turn the generator during the day and use your bio mass at night. Best of both worlds. Don't forget we may be short on gas from petrolium sorces in the near future.

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Anonymous Poster
#3
In reply to #1

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/08/2007 9:17 PM

Sorry sir, I am talking the context of "Biomass energy" please see this site

http://www.zenithenergy.com/faqs.HTM

See question number 3

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Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Good Answers: 2
#5

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/09/2007 2:01 AM

Dear Sarvesh

I agree with ChemE119. To get a picture of which would be better solution, you have to specify whole lot of factors, including but not limited to fuel availability ( gasifiers run on biomass, I think you know about it, hence availability and cost ), consumption whether for captive or sale to utility/electricity board, capital cost, operation and maintenance cost etc. Furthermore if there is any byproduct coming out after gasification, then that changes the economics completely. There are not very many gasifier based power plants of approx 1 MW with proven track records. Thus Each method of generation has its plus points and limitations.

Thanks

Ashok Toshniwal, Bangalore, India

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Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/09/2007 2:10 AM

Here's a dumb question. Has anyone ever tried to find a way to harness the gaseous byproducts of beer and Mexican food as a source of fuel?

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Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 183
Good Answers: 2
#7
In reply to #6

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/09/2007 3:25 AM

Dear Guest

Clearly your knowledge is limited. You have given an example of beer & Mexican food. While I donot know if there is any power plant running on beer or its cousins and Mexican food, but there are power plants running on biomass which includes waste wood etc. Max. capacity of power plant based on gasification technology, which I know of, is 1 MW installed in South India. This has been functioning for atleast 5 years now. Coconut shells & wood is used as a feedstock& gas produced in the gasifier is fed to an engine which is coupled to alternator for power generation. There is another distillery which is extracting methane from the effluent discharge. This is gas is fed to a gas engine/steam turbine to produce electricity

Do you still think this is a dumb question?

Thanks

Ashok Toshniwal, Bangalore, India

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Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver (not BC) Washington (not DC) US of A
Posts: 1261
Good Answers: 12
#10
In reply to #6

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/13/2007 1:37 PM

Considering that we have invented machines to milk cows, it ought to be possible to build machines to accumulate the CH4 and aromatic hydrocarbons expelled by flatulance. Design would be simple... but getting society to cooperate?? That would be a totally seperate problem.

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Associate

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 36
#8

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/09/2007 3:45 AM

In my view there is no doubt - gasification is the better and much more efficient way to go. Indeed I believe gasification is better even for much higher outputs than 1MWe. I say better because form an engineering perspective as well as commercially the system is more efficient and that is nothing more than basic physics really. The size of plant is much less, you do not have the same issues with moisture content as you do for simple combustion and you do not have the same inefficiencies using an IC engine as making steam and driving a turbine - for the reasons already explained earlier in the thread. Take a look at www.iti-energy.co.uk where you will find details of our techncial partners technology. The latest version of the unit will produce 1.7MWe net for export and 1.5MWth for export assuming you use 300KWth for drying feedstock - which would not be necessary in India possibly. The unit will consume about 1.5Te per hour of woodchips to produce this ammount of energy. You can also use RDF, coconut shells, straw pellets etc etc so long as you have a homogenous fairly dense fuel medium. Thats a very high efficiency. This technology is probably the most efficient in the world today. Installed cost is about US$3M per MWe output based on current exchange rates. You can also take a look at http://www.schmitt-enertec.com/cogeneration/home.htm where you will find details of a German technology provider who makes a 200Kw unit.

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Associate

Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 40
#9

Re: For <1MW capacity which is better for electricity generation

05/09/2007 1:19 PM
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Users who posted comments:

alf robertson (1); Anonymous Poster (3); ashoktoshniwal (2); ChemE119 (1); hilltopper (1); Larry Lai (1); Sciesis2 (1)

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