Previous in Forum: Size of Conductor   Next in Forum: Wireless Transmission of Electricity
Close
Close
Close
14 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: India,Pune
Posts: 46
Good Answers: 1

Power Factor Improvement

03/30/2012 7:17 AM

We use SW Infra red heater banks of about 150 kw.

We control the voltage using thyristorised power controller. At about 50% voltage the power factor goes to about 0.55.

Apart from The capacitor bank is there any other method or any other type of controller which does not reduce the power factor ?

Is IGBTs based controller a right answer for this? some googling revelled it can!?

Suggest methods other than capacitor bank

__________________
if you are a managment professional or youth who wants to start business contact for free help for your project including financial assistance through NGO in and around Pune India
Register to Reply
Pathfinder Tags: Power Factor
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
2
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: power factor improvement

03/30/2012 7:39 AM

At 50% voltage, the power applied is 25%. So switch off 3/4 of the bank instead and maintain full voltage on 1/4 of it. No power factor problems!

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Australia - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 1101
Good Answers: 23
#2
In reply to #1

Re: power factor improvement

03/31/2012 9:03 AM

What if he needs distributed heat, it would be a big job re wiring heater bank to switch off 3/4 of the panels and still maintain a heat spread.

Auto switching capacitor banks sound ok to me,

Alternativly you could use phase control to a transformer to lower the output voltage to the heaters, could be another power factor problem there.

__________________
Dont get on to the roundabout if you dont know how to get off
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#7
In reply to #2

Re: power factor improvement

04/02/2012 3:41 AM

These features were not in the original post.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Australia - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 1101
Good Answers: 23
#8
In reply to #7

Re: power factor improvement

04/02/2012 9:05 AM

True but you would expect that a bank of infra red heaters would be heating an object as a bank not odd spots here and there, it brings to mind paint drying cabinets.

I thought my observation was valid.

__________________
Dont get on to the roundabout if you dont know how to get off
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#11
In reply to #8

Re: power factor improvement

05/04/2023 7:40 AM

Without a more concise definition of the problem by the Original Poster, the forum might never know for certain.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
Australia - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 1101
Good Answers: 23
#13
In reply to #11

Re: power factor improvement

05/05/2023 1:23 AM

Gee that was a long time ago, nice to here from you.

__________________
Dont get on to the roundabout if you dont know how to get off
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Durban South Africa
Posts: 75
Good Answers: 2
#3

Re: Power Factor Improvement

03/31/2012 9:44 AM

Care should be exercised when designing the capacitor bank because of harmonics generated by the thyristor drive. Merely slapping capacitors in the supply may cause problems. Get someone who can measure the harmonics over the range of your power requirements and tune the bank to supress the relevant frequency.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 139
Good Answers: 6
#4

Re: Power Factor Improvement

03/31/2012 9:45 AM

Use "whole cycle" switching . . .

For 75% power turn the heaters OFF for every fourth whole cycle . . .

For 50% power turn the heaters OFF for every other cycle . . .

And so on . . . You may run into a problem of "flicker" . . but your power factor will be 100%.

O.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#5

Re: Power Factor Improvement

03/31/2012 10:22 AM

One thing that puzzles me here, AFAIK all short wave infrared heaters have a purely resistive load impedance. Why does the OP have a capacitor bank at all here? Similarly, if the only reactive impedance here is the inductance and capacitance of the cabling then with a power distribution frequency of 50 or 60 hertz what is changing the phase angle of the current away from a purely resistive angle. I'm certain that the cable run is not several kilometers long to make transmission line effects a factor. I suspect that there are either inductive motors powering fans that should not see this variable waveform or that the power factor instrumentation is not reporting a true response.

There is something more happening here. I suspect the OP is honestly telling us all that they know, but something is missing here.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply
2
Guru
Canada - Member - Specialized in power electronics

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Montreal, Canada.
Posts: 1372
Good Answers: 80
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Power Factor Improvement

03/31/2012 9:17 PM

Redfred,

The lagging power factor is caused by the thyristor controller. In order to reduce the voltage applied to the load, the gate driver delays the firing of the thyristor. This "electronic" delay in the voltage applied to the load is making the fundamental current lag the line voltage. The power factor decreases as the power is reduced.

OP,

-Phase controlled thyristors controllers are simple and inexpensive but are not the best performers. Others have correctly warned you against simply placing capacitors upstream. You may cause resonance problems and certainly have capacitor reliability issues.

-A full cycle controller (zero crossing) should be an improvement as suggested above.

-An IGBT active front end would solve all your harmonics and power factor problems as long as you have the money for it. It is also a more complex. You are probably not needing this level of sophistication to control a simple heater.

The best solution usually depends on the size of your load with respect to the plant electrical feeder. Small loads can usually be ignores as their bad behavior is drowned by the other larger loads. Especially in your case where the bad power factor is at a fraction of the nominal load. The PF number might look bad at the load but it may have a negligible effect on the plant's electrical supply.

As suggested above, you should ask a local EE for advise as the details of your situation can make all the difference.

__________________
Experienced is earned, common sense is taught, both are rare essentials of life.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Associate

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: India,Pune
Posts: 46
Good Answers: 1
#9
In reply to #6

Re: Power Factor Improvement

05/02/2012 4:27 AM

I am inclined to use IGBT as the powerfactor claimed is above 0.93

The other switching options do not work correctly as the inrush current in Infrared lamps is almost 11 time more as hot and cold resistance is different.

All other comments on different answers are good.

I thank all the experts for sharing their experinence.

Can anybody suggest a good source for IGBT based controllers in the required range having reliability experience.

__________________
if you are a managment professional or youth who wants to start business contact for free help for your project including financial assistance through NGO in and around Pune India
Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Power Factor Improvement

05/02/2012 11:47 AM

Whomever is telling you they can improve your power factor to .93 using an IGBT based PWM controller is not telling you the whole truth, a common game in that industry. You will spend 5X - 10X the cost of the controller for an IGBT based system and then you will introduce more harmonics and distortion power factor instead of displacement power factor. The net gain for you will be nil, the net gain for them is tremendous.

What MOST other people do in this case is to use a "Combination" SCR controller, one that uses phase angle control at the initial start up to control inrush from the high hot-to-cold coefficient of resistance difference, then change over to zero-cross variable time based control for running in order to avoid the power factor and noise issues. The cheap SCR controller mfrs do not offer this, you need to be speaking to those that offer higher quality controllers and know what they are doing.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#12

Re: Power Factor Improvement

05/04/2023 7:42 AM

At 0% voltage, the power factor will be zero. So why is the feature <...the power factor goes to about 0.55...> actually considered a problem locally?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru
India - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: India, 200 Km. North of Delhi.
Posts: 1393
Good Answers: 53
#14

Re: Power Factor Improvement

05/06/2023 9:14 AM

You may think of turning off alternate infra heater and using controller @100%

Of course temp profile is also important.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 14 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

beentheredonethat (1); garth (3); JRaef (1); kirannawathe (1); marcot (1); olehwi (1); PWSlack (4); rakesh_semwal (1); redfred (1)

Previous in Forum: Size of Conductor   Next in Forum: Wireless Transmission of Electricity

Advertisement