Engine Propelled With Pedal Power Assist

Sure. Use the pedal to wind a spring or flywheel and release the resulting energy to accelerate.

You could do it with an electric vehicle, too by pumping a foot powered generator that fed into the drive battery.

Both systems are totally useless in a practical sense, but you didn't ask about that.

Not totally useless lyn. In this car, passengers aren't just along for the free ride - they have to contribute.

http://www.humancar.com/overview.htm

Yes totally useless Johny451, in any practical sense.

...turns, goes and sulks in corner.

Ok, ok, not totally useless. Maybe not practical for everyday transportation. Novelty.

...shoulders still jerking in time to heavy sobs, turns head toward lyn in hope.

A rotating part in the engine supplies the drive to the wheels. If you could use pedal power to rotate the engine in the same direction the powers would be additive, but on a uphill stretch, it could push your legs backwards!

Lyn that is interesting and I thank you , the reason I was asking is if you had a bicycle with a small engine on it with a motor for backup then when you ran out of steam yourself then you could use the gas or electric engine to get the rest of the way to your destination . In that sense it might be somewhat helpful no ???

The difference with a moped was that you either had to use the engine by itself or the pedals alone I wanted to see if you could use both together and I think Lyn has answered that but I would like to hear why it is not practical

First, the moped concept is closer to reality.

Check here:Power system for 40 mph bicycle? - WattFlyer RC Electric Flight ...

Electric Bikes - Electric-Bikes.com

E-Bike Conversion Kit FRONT - Direct Drive

It all boils down to the efficiency of the drive systems. Every mechanism required to connect the two modes adds weight to the vehicle and costs power to transmit mechanical energy. Nothing's 100% efficient.

Happy peddling.

The difference is:

The passenger could be just dead weight, 50% of the load or more, or a substantial contributor to power the system ... 50% or more.

Useless? ... could be ... depends if the passenger it's your average Human being or Lyn himself.

Passenger? Does this moped have two sets of pedals?

Haven't heard from you since you enlightened me about turbos. And other things.

All of that sharing of the load theory is great as long as there IS a passenger. What will this vehicle be like when the passenger is at another location? Now you have a vehicle that almost requires a second person, with half of it's power supply missing.

"... you either had to use the engine by itself or the pedals alone ..."

Nope. I used the pedals to assist the engine up steep hills.

You could make one....Here's some small size cool bodies to start...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgsseKEiDDg&feature=player_embedded

Pedal/electric hybrid the Twike...

The electric bike selector, a few questions = perfect e-bike....

http://www.nycewheels.com/the-best-electric-bike-for-me.html

This is cool, a folding e-bike that folds into a carry cart...now that's handy...

http://www.nycewheels.com/brompton-electric-bike.html

I remember they had little two stroke motors to fit onto bicycles behind the saddle, you lowered it onto the back wheel to start it, the lowering onto the tire and lifting off was the clutch. We knew a visiting nurse who had one, she lived in the Cotswolds, plenty of hills to climb. Since they didn't go fast, both powers could be combined as long as the minimum speed for the motor was maintained.

She asked me if I could juice it up; she still wanted to do it after I gave her the normal warning about the rest of the engine not built for it. I got a sheet of glass and some carburundum paste and ground the head down a shade. It did work a little harder.

I found the picture I wanted.

This is it?

The weight of the engine on the front tire might adversely affect steering...just a thought, maybe even just aperception.

You people are just a fanatastic source of information and I really appreciate that . You have given me some amazing backgrounds of others that have had the same idea and that thrills me. Thank you so much for your continuing help and information .

You should look at BionX electric drive. The motor is in the wheel hub, can be used as a conversion kit, requires no mods to the standard chain and sprocket drive. It's quite a simple power on demand system that seems to work very well.

I think that MO-PEDS work this way. Use pedal to assist acceleration and hill climbing. Not so ?

You received pictures of two different models both of which were widely used in Europe at one time. No need to reinvent the wheel so to speak. Some product improvement would not be remiss.

It was called a moped - a motor cycle with pedal assist. Designed years ago when engines were lucky to push out a 1HP. Look up things like an NSU Quickly, Raleigh Runabout etc.

The Sinclair C5. Another lemon.

They used these extensively in Europe in the 60s. I haven't been there since so I will wait for others to pitch in on their current popularity. Pedal power assist was used on hills and starting out.

http://www.mopedstore.org/Moped-Models/Solex

A practical application for this pedal-boost-system would be a commuter bicycle.

The bike would be electric, with the pedals powering the battery charger, not driving the drive train.

The rider would pedal at a constant speed, determined to be the most efficient for driving the charging system, regardless of terrain. The only time the pedaling would slow or stop would be if the rider needed to put a foot down for balance, and even then, one foot could continue to pedal. Or, build a tricycle and then pedal constantly regardless of travel speed.

The system would greatly extend the range of the battery, use a smaller and lighter battery, could use a smaller drive motor like the hub-motors mentioned in the other posts, and provide excellent speed assistance uphill and faster acceleration to keep up with traffic flow.

However, there's just no reasonable way to replace the range and power of a petrol system with electric especially on a bike - there's just no way to carry enough energy in a battery compared to the fossil fuels. So pedaling a gas motor is probably just for fun and exercise, not a significant boost in efficiency or performance. It sure would be a great way to get that gym workout out of the way on the way to the gym. Would you go to the gym just to shower? Then shower again when you got home? Now we are saving petrol and wasting water. Crap.

Do we now need a pedal boosted, battery powered, solar hot water rolling shower stall for morning commutes? Talk about arriving fresh to the office. Toss in GPS, a coffee maker... wait... this is sounding like my RV...

They use to call them MoPeds. Although the things weighed around 150 lbs. so think of pedaling a 150 lb. bicycle,

Here an almost feasible solution!

What about adding a liposuction tube and simply burn the fat directly in the engine.

Most people would prefer this to having to pedal...

I be I could cover many kilometers with my spare tire.

(And yes, I am joking but...)

I like the concept, direct fat to energy conversion....Does seem a little problematic for non-intrusive implementation though...

Consider the output of a small motor bike engine - 5 BHP ish.

Now think about how much energy your legs can bring to the party - 250W for a short duration.

The whole exercise is a bit pointless.

Like the fat burner - now that does have promise!

I totally understand your pointless remark but if you are one of us crazy people that would like to be able to get a little exercise but have the security of a back up plan in case we over induldge then this form of transportaion has some interesting appeal . I love the idea from texmedic and might want to explore that further or look into something that has already been created

Thank you everyone so much again

Thank You, Love This, for your positive questions and comments!

I have only been a member for a few days, and yet already have found quite a few folks who are intent on offering snarky answers and useless solutions to what they deem are pointless problems. Most ironic, and most not funny. I rather enjoy a good laugh about a problem, but the funniest people I know are the ones who can poke fun at themselves after they have solved the problem - not the ones who can't solve the problem and so just poke at others.

Yes, there are petrol engines and they are small. Obviously these have been to use in miriad modes of transport. They use flammable liquids and cannot be taken inside most commuter office destinations. They are noisy and smelly. They have hot exhaust systems that cause contact burns. They leak - oil, fuel, glycol, chain grease, and certainly leak more of something if stored or carried over new carpet. If they have a transmission, they leak that fluid too, and most likely can't recover braking energy and turn it back into fuel.

If our discussion is about a commuter bicycle/tricycle that can be stored inside the home, apartment, or office, charged overnight or while pedaling, keeps with the "green initiative" - then certainly I think your idea has a lot of merit.

I once lived in a very hilly area where I would see people dismount and walk their bikes because they could not maintain forward momentum and balance at the crest of the hills. And I also saw plenty of crashes at the bottoms of those same hills - mostly due to failed rim-squeezing brake pads.

Why not use a hub mechanism to aid climbing, recover braking energy, and be "green" at the same time? Since many examples here have ignored cost, I think the electrical circuitry to perform this task would be well within reason.

You wrote:"I have only been a member for a few days".

You would do well to reserve your comments and judgment about etiquette here until you have some small understanding of the workings of the forum.

Ok ... Ok ... will say it the way it is.

... and just like through out history will be nailed for it ... (the most famous being Jesus Christ)... not the first, hope not to be the last.

Dear Lyn.

Regardless of what I'm going to say, never forget ... I love you too, I really do, maybe this is your way to redemption :)

You come across as a biased, short minded, low intelligence, low life, no life, low ranking, no skills, no imagination, little bitter grey man, wanna be designer/inventor, internet browser cultured, wife abused Babbitt.

You are personally the main reason why people stop coming here to share ideas and improve Human's race existence!

... This is serious stuff people! ...

... and there's statistics to prove it!

You have to this point 14746 posts.

You have been a member for 42 Months ... approximately 1260 days.

14746/1260 = 11.7

11.7 comments a day!

There's an average 6 treads a day (going down! ...) proposed by members and non members.

Conclusion:

You Lyn, make an average 2 comments per tread! ... every single day since you joined! Most of them (I would say 95%) are just hate filled, no imagination whatsoever , off topic, uncalled for, biased comments.

Now I ask the CR4 community and Lyn himself. (Are you related to Charles Lynch? ... responsible for the term "Lynching"? ... google it up community, please)

Is it time for you to stop bothering, poisoning, jamming the creative minds and process all around the planet?

Is it time for us to F------ vote you out?

Or is time for you to reconsider your attitude towards life ... most importantly towards CR4?

You choose now!

Alea iacta est.

Nice to hear from you again.

Always enjoy your constructive comments.

14747 ...

Well I was getting ready to say something similar, not a good idea to walk in here throwing rocks, but Lyn beat me to it....I might just say the same to you....

Thats the nicest thing anybody has every said to lyn.......I think I going to cry....where's my camera....this is a kodak moment.

You have to realize, that we are not yes men/women here. Don't look at it as road block, alot of it is critical thinking. And in engineering, critical think makes people that can think, do.

And from designing OEM equipment for over 20 years, I value it, and what I don't value, I laugh, and what I don't laugh at, I am humbled.

Humility can be a virtue or a curse, its up to you, not lyn.

Wow. Let's see. Not enough data to do your level of mathematical analysis, so I'll just point out what a Noob you are (37 posts, who cares when you arrived, where's your contribution?), and that we, who have been here a while, have learned to ignore what we don't like (For the most part. Of course, that excludes loud-mouthed short-tempered Noobs! ) and take the good information Lyn provides with thanks.

So, a word to the wise, from one who has been roundly and soundly thrashed when I deserved it. Lighten up, hang around, learn how to comport yourself without causing your own demise in the backwash from your own flames, and don't make yourself deserving of a thrashing. They aren't fun. And they aren't especially short-lived. Unlike those of us who get thrashed and can't stand the beating.

To correct myself, not 37 posts, but 79!! WOW. A whole 79!

Nonetheless, my apologies for my error.

This is just horrible, I would hope you eventually find yourself banned from CR4, no room for persons such as yourself.

Just go to your local bar and talk trash, don't post it here.

Tim Wisneski

There is a huge industry in electric assist push bicycles already. Google Electric Bike.

"Why not use a hub mechanism to aid climbing, recover braking energy, and be "green" at the same time? Since many examples here have ignored cost, I think the electrical circuitry to perform this task would be well within reason."

Yes, and this technology has already existed for many years. BionX hub drive is just one example. This entire discussion has been focussing on human power to supplement gas power. Why? It's pointless as Lyn pointed out. The thinking should focus on using electric power to assit human power...and this has been around for a while now in the e-bike industry (mostly in direct drive hubs)...as Johny451 suggested.

BTW, there's no way you could charge a battery using pedal power then use the charge to power a motor. It would take you forever to charge the thing and it would discharge within a few seconds. There's a reason why the industry has developed the direct drive and reachargeable battery system. It works well and is practical!

My $0.02

Here's an exercise for you. I'll give you the first site. This will give you some idea of how much power you could generate by pedaling. Then you can explore the amount of power needed to propel the vehicle of your choice.

Buy Now Pedal Power Bicycle Generator Alternative Green Human ...

STATIONARY BIKE

300 Watts

You know, I always felt that at the Gym, that what they should use to power or at least assist the electronics on the cardio machines........so much 'fat' going to waste.

It all depends on amplification.

Would you like to amplify you statement?

Just like always, you cant find something when you want it. But yesterday in Singapore I seen what I think you are talking about. Looked like a very light weight moped, the man motored up to an intersection then pedaled around a while then went back to motoring while pedaling to help out the tiny little engine.

Not like the mopeds that I have ever seen, as this was actually small and light enough to make pedaling practical. So now the task is to find one and get a picture in action.

In Japan the electric pedal assist bikes have been around for a while

http://eponline.com/articles/2011/02/15/the-sanyo-pedalassist-synergetic-hybrid-bicycle-is-available-in-hawaii.aspx

Yes, of course it is:

http://www.steamcar.net/z-hudspith.html