Previous in Forum: DC to DC Step-up Transformer   Next in Forum: Selenium Rectifiers
Close
Close
Close
21 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1679
Good Answers: 33

HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/01/2012 10:16 AM

Hello! I have a HID light fixture (100 W x 220V) in the garden which started to operate on a weird fashion: it gets on and stays that way for a certain time (minutes to hours), gets off for a while.... and on again. This happens repeatedly all over the night. Connections are OK. No component looks damaged. The lamp works fine on another fixture. It would be great to get it to work again... but have no idea what may be wrong, nor how to test the few components (ballast, capacitor, ignitor) it has inside. Any clues? Thanks!

__________________
the more I move, the deeper I get stuck !
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - Member

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Trantor
Posts: 5363
Good Answers: 647
#1

Re: HID (Na) light fixture works intermittently

07/01/2012 12:20 PM

Does it have a built in temp sensor that turns it off when it starts to over heat? If so, maybe this sensor is faulty and is causing it to go on and off like you describe.

__________________
Whiskey, women -- and astrophysics. Because sometimes a problem can't be solved with just whiskey and women.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1679
Good Answers: 33
#2
In reply to #1

Re: HID (Na) light fixture works intermittently

07/01/2012 12:24 PM

Hi, no temp sensor inside...

__________________
the more I move, the deeper I get stuck !
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: May 2012
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 15
#3

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/01/2012 1:43 PM

Does it have a photo-eye that turns it on at night and off during the day? That may be faulty. Should be a unit on the top of the lamp that just plugs in. We replace a lot more of those for every bad lamp.

Best of Luck!!

__________________
Every Time a man buys a Glock, God saves a Puppy
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1679
Good Answers: 33
#4
In reply to #3

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/01/2012 2:22 PM

yes, already checked: it works OK:

__________________
the more I move, the deeper I get stuck !
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#5

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/01/2012 5:26 PM

Regularly blinking off and coming back on is common thing that HPS bulbs start to do at the end of their life. If the arc tube is nearly all black its about at the end of its life. Normally they are an off white or grayish color.

The only reason it works in a different fixture is probably because that one has a slightly higher ballast output voltage. Give the bulb time and once its internal arc resistance goes up even higher when hot it will start blinking in that one as well.

Put a new one in it and the problem should go away.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1679
Good Answers: 33
#7
In reply to #5

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/01/2012 6:38 PM

Hello tcmtech, I did so, but the problem persists. I would not define the problem as "blinking" "Intermitent" seems to be a more accurate expression, as the lamp can be on for some minutes... or even hours, then it gets off for some minutes, and on again. Initially I thought "something" : the ballast (!!??) could overheat, quit working, cool down, start working again....

__________________
the more I move, the deeper I get stuck !
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#8
In reply to #7

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/01/2012 9:32 PM

If its a magnetic type ballast its possible the capacitor is getting weak which can cause older bulbs to randomly blink out when ever there is a small incoming power dip.

As far as solid state ballasts for HID I worked at a sign company as a sign service tech for a summer and never had much experience with those other than they either worked or were burned out. I don't ever recall dealing with a half way functional one.

If they weren't on they had either had the bulb go bad or they let the magic smoke out is all that I ever dealt with.

Register to Reply
Guru
United States - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: California, USA, where the Godless live next door to God.
Posts: 4665
Good Answers: 804
#6

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/01/2012 6:34 PM

Or the ballast is going bad. A modern HID ballast is no longer magnetic only, it is now a sophisticated SMPS (Switch Mode Power Supply), which means it has a rectifier, high speed transistor and a transformer. As it ages (or weathers) and the insulation of the transformer begins to break down, the output voltage begins to drop as windings short internally. That triggers the switch mode controller to step up the voltage, which can cause the transistor to over drive and heat up. It shuts down to protect itself, cools off, then starts up again. Repeat ad nauseum.

__________________
** All I every really wanted to be, was... A LUMBERJACK!.**
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Associate

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SOUTH AFRICA near the' Cradle of mankind'
Posts: 41
Good Answers: 3
#9

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/02/2012 1:34 AM

High pressure sodium lamps exhibit this condition called 'cycling'; as the lamps get older and reach end of life. The reason for this is that as the lamp ages the arc voltage inside the lamp increases until it reaches a point where the ballast can no longer supply the voltage and the arc extinguishes, the lamp cools, re strikes and the cycle starts all over again.

__________________
The more I practice the luckier I get.(Player)
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 740
Good Answers: 24
#10

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/02/2012 1:51 AM

Are you able to correlate any aspects of the intermittency with any other factors, eg time on/time off with cool evening/warm evening, dry/wet, animal or insect activity ....I have heard of animals urinating on a power board behind a TV causing strange intermittent behaviour of the TV until at last the power board caught fire.....

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Sebastopol, California
Posts: 1205
Good Answers: 54
#13
In reply to #10

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/02/2012 10:49 AM

I saw a computer taken out that same way once. The mouseys were getting in through the keyboard connector in the back. The corrosion damage to the mother board was terrible!

__________________
Most people are mostly good most of the time.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1679
Good Answers: 33
#19
In reply to #10

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/03/2012 9:21 PM

... actually not, it started to happen randomly for a certain time, and now it is constant. thanks for asking!

__________________
the more I move, the deeper I get stuck !
Register to Reply
Participant

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4
Good Answers: 1
#11

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/02/2012 9:51 AM

These lamps operate on a similar principle to flourescent tubes; its likely a faulty ballast in the fixture that needs replacing. Hope it has a replaceable part.

Good luck

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 31
Good Answers: 1
#12

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/02/2012 9:54 AM

If the lamp functions in a different fixture, the problem is not the lamp (bulb). The ballast is the problem, it has a thermal overload imbedded in the windings, when excessive heat from shorted windings triggers it to open, the light goes out. When the windings cool down the overload resets it's self, and the light will come back on. Change the ballast; I have seen this problem many times.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1679
Good Answers: 33
#21
In reply to #12

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/03/2012 9:24 PM

I guess you are right..... I´ll see if I get a new one!

__________________
the more I move, the deeper I get stuck !
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 177
Good Answers: 6
#14

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/02/2012 11:18 AM

Change the bulb first. Most of the time it will cure it. This is normal end of life operation for this type of bulb.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 31
Good Answers: 1
#15
In reply to #14

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/02/2012 11:44 AM

r&ddoc sates in his explanation of the problem "The lamp works fine on another fixture". We can only conclude that the problem is not the bulb.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 31
Good Answers: 1
#16
In reply to #14

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/02/2012 12:33 PM

Read #5, and #7 the bulb has been changed, and the problem persists.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#17
In reply to #16

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/02/2012 1:44 PM

Then the ballast is going bad.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SOUTH AFRICA near the' Cradle of mankind'
Posts: 41
Good Answers: 3
#18
In reply to #16

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/03/2012 3:42 AM

It is common for ballasts for HPS and Metal Halide lamps to have a thermal overload built in as has been mentioned this is to protect the windings if the unit is used at to high a ambient temperature or the designed winding temperature is exceeded due to rectifier effect,short circuit or overload . This information is marked on the choke in words or as a temperature value inside a triangle. The other thing that cause a high pressure discharge lamp to extinguish is if there is a momentary glitch in the Hz say 1 cycle possibly caused by some heavy load switching.

__________________
The more I practice the luckier I get.(Player)
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1679
Good Answers: 33
#20
In reply to #14

Re: HID (Na) Light Fixture Works Intermittently

07/03/2012 9:22 PM

I did, it also happens with the new one!

__________________
the more I move, the deeper I get stuck !
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 21 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Bevelgearpro (1); Deefburger (1); Greg M (2); JRaef (1); lrsheldon (1); Nemesis_62 (1); r&ddoc (6); tcmtech (3); Thomas J. Becker (3); Usbport (1); WAWAUS (1)

Previous in Forum: DC to DC Step-up Transformer   Next in Forum: Selenium Rectifiers

Advertisement