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Commentator

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Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/20/2012 5:27 PM

I am not very familiar with PLC information so bear with me.

My question concerns transmitting/receiving FSK signals. Assume we have one T-Line and a substation on either side that are talking to each other. Station A is sending a guard signal around 115.125 kHz, and substation B is sending one at around 114.875.

I would like for someone with some background to try to explain how it is that these signals can be so close and not interfere with each other. Is the resolution detection of today's technology really so fine to be able to pick up differing signals that close and still leave room to pick up any frequency shift signals? Also, are there any issues with reflection?

And I know they have to be close because of line tuners and line traps and everything. I'm just curious if this is an accurate possibility and if there are any associated problems with having the two signals so close.

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Guru

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#1

Re: Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/20/2012 8:13 PM

Are the frequencies radiated as RF out put or transmitted over wire? What is the distance between substations?

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Guru

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/20/2012 8:30 PM
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Guru

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#6
In reply to #2

Re: Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/22/2012 7:20 AM

That reference explores PLC for metro data carriage not for grid control telemetry. It specifically discounts the viability of FSK modulation in section 4.9 on page 45. (OP did say that it was an FSK system.)

Sorry mate, although it is an interesting dissertation I'll have to OT you on that one.

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Commentator

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/20/2012 10:12 PM

It is a signal transmitted via an overhead transmission line. The distance is 10-20 miles.

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Guru

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/21/2012 4:23 PM

What is the bandwidth of your FSK TX signal ?

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Guru

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#5

Re: Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/21/2012 11:54 PM

Distinguishing frequencies at a fraction of 1% difference? No problem at all!

If we take for a rough comparison channelized communications widely used in commercial, fire, police, radioamateur bands with 25kHz channel separation (not even the latest and greatest spec.) at 1000 MHz, that is 2,5x10-5 separation. A common resonant quartz is markedly better than that, as a frequency establishing element. Better stabilized forms reach 10-7 to 10-8 in a stable fashion.

Taking 10-7 quartz stability to 100kHz means, that with its help 0,01Hz frequency difference can be separated. Obviously, the circuit's realization has something to do with it too. That subiect is the whole area of frequency synthesizers.

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Guru

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#7

Re: Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/22/2012 9:13 AM

They aren't close at all.

500Hz is loads of channel separation giving 250Hz channel bandwidth (without guard band) for each.

This is FSK telemetry not broadband data.

I found this ancient publication that explains the basics and details reasonably well.

I found something a little more contemporary where it states ( on page 2-8)that the channel separation can be as low as 500Hz providing 200Hz bandwidth for 100Hz shift on a unidirectional system.

There will be no issues with reflections if the line tuners are properly setup. That's why they are called tuners.

That's about all I can help you with unless you pony up with more specific information.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/24/2012 5:01 PM

Thanks Wal; the RFL instruction manual had some of the values I was asking directly about.

On pages 2-7 and 2-8 it talks about the "minimal channel spacings". We have three transmitting devices all connected on one line operating at guard frequencies of 115.125, 115.250, and 114.875 kHz. The receive devices are programed at 115kHz, giving a 125Hz separation between signals. on 2-8 of the RFL manual it says that the nominal bandwidth is 200 Hz. Does this mean that each of those three signals should be at least 200 Hz apart? I just can't wrap my head around the resolution these terminals are capable of in regards to distinguishing what signal means what.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Power Line Carrier Tx/Rx

09/25/2012 12:22 PM

I just can't wrap my head around the resolution these terminals are capable of in regards to distinguishing what signal means what.

...and yet they are perfectly capable.

Sharp filtering is all it takes. This was sorted out way back in the days of analogue circuit multiplexing equipment. All packed in and very close and yet it worked.

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