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Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

10/19/2012 9:00 AM

This is an old Beckman multimeter maybe from 1980s. That large red thing is marked C01. Can anyone say what does it do and why so is it so large? Any general comments on the construction of this multimeter would be welcome too. I am just curious about it. Thankyou.

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#1

Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/19/2012 9:24 AM

It does the exact same thing every other capacitor does. It causes the current flowing through it to lead the voltage across it.

Now if you wish to know how this affects the components connected to this capacitor, then you must trace the circuitry connected to the capacitor and identify the components connected. I recommend making a hand drawn schematic to aid in the circuit analysis.

This capacitor appears to be a polyester capacitor. I would guess that it would be close to a micro-farad in value.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/19/2012 9:45 AM

Thanks for reply. I admit to being a bit lazy and not tracing out circuits but one excuse I have is that a gave the meter away to a young physics whizz after I took the photos. I just thought someone might know right off why its put there and might be able to say "oh yes, it limits the floop going to the flop" . Thanks for identifying it as polyester and its aprox value I did not that.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/19/2012 10:12 AM

It prevents the clock frequency from returning to the battery, there by preventing formation of interfering current loops, with other circuits on the PCB.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/19/2012 10:20 AM

Fantastic answer. Why do they make it so big? Why not just use some small electrolytic to do the job? Thanks

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#6
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Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/19/2012 10:28 AM

I am sorry, that my answer is considered offencive. Yes, electrolytic will do similar job, but for a much lower frequency range.

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#8
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Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/19/2012 12:39 PM

Not considered offensive at all. You might misunderstand the word fantastic.

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#9
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Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/19/2012 12:43 PM

Thank you, Tank Circuit.

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#15
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Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/20/2012 7:55 PM

If you check the dictionary definition of 'fantastic' you will see why Joshi "misunderstood"

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#16
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Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/20/2012 8:23 PM

"Fantastic" is one of those ambiguous words in English. It always means far from normal but depending on the enthusiasm (that does not get conveyed with text) it can mean a good or a bad thing. I'm certain that in this case it was intended to be a good thing.

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#17
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Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/20/2012 8:29 PM

Yes exactly. "Oh, that's fantastic" in text doesn't convey the meaning intended. 1. it is good, very good ( most common ) 2. It is nonsense of the highest order ( less common in our politically correct world ).

2. is almost archaic.

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#7
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Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/19/2012 10:32 AM

I'm not convinced that this is a supply decoupling capacitor as Joshi stated, but it could be. Electrolytic capacitors particularly of the 80's era have lousy high frequency characteristics and very poor accuracy tolerances. Many small electrolytic capacitors often have a ±20% tolerance. Polyester or mylar (the other possible type of that package style) capacitors will nominally have less series parasitic resistance and inductance characteristics than an electrolytic. Thus they will operate at higher frequencies as expected.

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#11
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Re: Why big capacitor inside multimeter?

10/19/2012 12:50 PM

Thankyou redfred , a few things there I did not know.

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#5

Re: Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

10/19/2012 10:24 AM

My old Beckman multimeter measured voltage, current, frequency, capacitance, and some diode and transistor parameters. Big Red could be a "reference" capacitor for the larger scale(s) of the capacitance measurement function. Need more information like a circuit trace or actual schematic.

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#10
In reply to #5

Re: Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

10/19/2012 12:45 PM

This is the Beckman DM10 which is really basic. I does volts,ohms,amps, diode test and thats it. Thanks for your input.

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#12

Re: Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

10/20/2012 8:12 AM

It's for AC coupling when measuring mains voltages.

(just a guess)

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

10/20/2012 9:30 AM

That is a good guess. It would have been positive, had the capacitor been placed close to socket of the prod.

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#14

Re: Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

10/20/2012 11:23 AM

Well, it looks like a 'standard' design of the era, 3½ digit multimeter.

I would think that the capacitor is the DC voltage filter, used to reduce any a.c. component of the input voltage, i.e. a low pass filter.

This would be necessary to reduce the effect any a.c. component has on the A/D. It would have to be a large size to allow it to safely work at high d.c. voltages while still having a large enough value to reduce the ac noise to a minimum.

Any a.c. noise coming into the integrating A/D will be mixed with the A/D's clock and operating frequencies, causing unstable readings.

The A/D in these multimeters is run at a frequency that rejects most 50 and 60 Hz noise. For optimum effect the A/D clock should be set to reject the mains frequency of the country its being used in i.e. either 50 or 60 Hz (or maybe 400Hz for aircraft use?), Maybe the manufacturer of this multimeter was hoping to make a standard product that allowed use at 50 and 60 Hz by employing this filter at the input.

Either that or this model was one designed for 50 Hz use and was sold over seas to measure 60Hz (I'm in the UK 50 Hz) - That would explain why the capacitor looks as though it was a later modification to the instrument.

It looks as if this capacitor was an 'after thought' modification

John

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#18
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Re: Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

10/20/2012 9:25 PM

Thankyou Electroman. My guess is you are right and your explanation covers why its so big.

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#19

Re: Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

10/21/2012 3:39 PM

It could be for the AC input to eliminate DC from the circuit. I have a VOM from the 1960's. The capacitor must be non-polarized, and high voltage to withstand DC that might be present. Vacuum tube equipment had 600 volts DC typical. A larger value will give you more signal from lower frequencies, i.e. better frequency response.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

10/22/2012 6:31 AM

Good guess, those VOMs used to have an additional scale called "output" and showing dB (dBm) directly. The capacitor was similar to the one described.

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#21

Re: Why Big Capacitor Inside Multimeter?

01/15/2013 12:54 PM

Lots of time has lapsed for this thread but here are details.

This capacitor is generally Polypropylene for low leakage for pA input current source and also operates at reasonable high frequency and good pulse current response specially used for dual slope ADC input stage or charge sampling stage like ICL7135 etc.

Polyester capacitor will also work to near to Polypropylene capacitor with increased error. PTFE capacitors are the best but they are very expensive. Capacitor value is of the order of 0.1uF to 1uF and normally higher voltage from 400V to 2000V.

If you replace these capacitors with other capacitors of low frequency response and of high leakage and of high residual charge then ADC will have lots of error.

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Electroman (1); JIMRAT (2); Joshi (4); mjb1962853 (1); Randall (1); redfred (3); Shyam (1); Snel (1); StandardsGuy (1); Tank Circuit (6)

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