Previous in Forum: 11kV /13.8 kV System Grounding Methods for Offshore FPSO   Next in Forum: LA Rating Calculation
Close
Close
Close
25 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10

Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/30/2012 6:00 AM

Recently i was appointed as person in charge for safety in our small organization. There was an accident happen where the worker got an electrical shock when he went to switch on the air cond. But the report from the Facility Head was denying this claim saying all the metal parts at the plug are grounded and the power supply would have been cut automatically if there's faulty wiring. Divert the cause of the shock to exposed cable joint. Which i'm not too sure because the position of the worker and the joint. Noticed there's burn marks on the wall and the worker claimed he actually saw sparks along the cable, which was not explained by the Facility Head in his report. I'm investigating this case felt very important to verify the claim from the Facility Head if he's reporting the truth. Since i don't have electrical background i would like to seek experts opinion here in this forum.

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
5
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: Worker electrical shock verify the root cause

10/30/2012 6:05 AM

Isolate the equipment immediately.

Hire a qualified local electrician from outside the organisation who is familiar with local electrical codes. Get this individual to go through the installation, test it in detail, rectify all faults, and report. Obtain and keep records of the testing certificates for the installation in a safe place.

Do it now, and before anyone else gets hurt/killed. Like today/immediately/this morning/right now.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 5)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Worker electrical shock verify the root cause

10/30/2012 6:18 AM

Thanks for the prompt reply. The technician replaced a new set of cable and plug also fixed an additional sleeve on the cable. Tested the plug and the air cond is working well.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Worker electrical shock verify the root cause

10/30/2012 7:18 AM

Where is the test report filed, stating the fault that has been remedied that caused the electric shock? What defence does the organisation have if the individual that received the electric shock makes a claim?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
3
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 1975
Good Answers: 117
#8
In reply to #3

Re: Worker electrical shock verify the root cause

10/30/2012 11:02 PM

The Technician has neatly and permanently destroyed any evidence of the problem. So now, an investigation cannot be made. You will never know whether the department head was lying or negligent. I will bet that the electrician which fixed the problem was brought in by the department head. Yes? No?

At this point, you will have to let the department head know that suspicion was directed his way, and that he will have to take care that normal and routine maintenance in his department are being carried out.

It is NOT too late to make a policy that serious or life threatening defects in machinery be reported, the test results recorded before and after repairs, and it is VERY important that this information be stored in a secure log control area. This log will become a legal document, so it must be capable of being retreived when necessary, and stored in a locked cabinet.

Does this sound nasty? Life threatening snags require draconian measures. If the department head does not want to be responsible, I am sure there are many who would step into his shoes.

__________________
If it was easy anybody could do it.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
2
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16512
Good Answers: 670
#2

Re: Worker electrical shock verify the root cause

10/30/2012 6:07 AM

Your only course of action is to get a qualified electrician to investigate and issue a written report/certificate.
Your facility head is offering an opinion which isn't backed up by test results. Yes, all the metal parts may have been grounded once upon a time, but did he actually test them? Is he qualified? Where is the report?
On no account accept the verbal assurances of the Facility Head.
Del

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
2
Active Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12
Good Answers: 1
#5

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/30/2012 8:02 AM

Its really very serious issue...

As the shock had happened, there is something wrong in the installation..

As said in earlier posts, investigate from the root...

verify all the test reports first, test all other electrical installation of the facility by third party, assure the safety of public..

possible causes can be,

out dated installation, substandard materials, unqualified workmanship (installation), unsafe operation (human error), damaged/broken materials...etc

All to be verified only by qualified electrician well versed in local & international regulations...

Regards,

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: srilanka
Posts: 2725
Good Answers: 5
#11
In reply to #5

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 1:19 AM

Another problem may be "there is no trade union in the work place to make a complaint to the authorities/labour office and ask for compensation to the victim" . Was he taken to hospital for treatment and what did the doctor's report say?. The management should maintain records of regular testing of the installation including PAT(portable appliances).

__________________
pnaban
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#13
In reply to #11

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 4:30 AM

Indeed. Testing records are vital evidence of safety management in action. The forum has not been told of the location of this installation. In the UK, regular testing and maintaining test records is a requirement under Electricity At Work regulations.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Cd. Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico.
Posts: 1023
Good Answers: 69
#6

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/30/2012 9:55 AM

No splices should be allowed in this equipment, neither plugging/unplugging as a switching method, specially on a location contaminated with cutting fluids which are ladden with metallic particles, carbon or high humidity.

I saw this a couple of times in tool-room installations.

  1. Be certain that the insulation integrity of all wiring is not compromised.
  2. Have an effective ground for all exposed metal parts and chassis of equipment.
  3. Have a remote starter box for your equipment AND read about arc flash.
  4. Pay attention to harsh environments, clean more often.
__________________
No hay conocimiento ni herramienta que sustituya al sentido comun.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Thailand
Posts: 631
Good Answers: 3
#7

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/30/2012 10:27 PM

What is the flooring? Carpet? ie could be static in a dry atmosphere. Tho this is not consistent with sparks & burn marks.

Victim may have 'seen sparks' as he felt the shock of static discharge?

Fit an RCD on at least the a/c circuit. Or the whole building. Test it regularly.

__________________
Floss or die!
Register to Reply
2
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Resting under the Major Oak
Posts: 4347
Good Answers: 181
#9

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/30/2012 11:17 PM

This isn't about safety, it's about shifting the blame on to the victim. The fact the cable and plug were replaced after the incident would seem to be an admission of guilt.

But non of what's been written here matters, the air con's working O.K.

__________________
The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 12:47 AM
  1. The facility head reported that all the metal parts at the plug are grounded and the power supply would have been cut automatically if there's faulty wiring - If this claim is true why there's burn marks on the wall??
  2. The marks were not there before the worker press the switch to "ON" and sparks seen along the cable?!
  3. These are the evident pointing that there was current flow and proving that the worker telling the truth and really got a shock when he want to press "on" the switch.
  4. The fact the cable and plug were replaced after the incident would seem to be an admission of guilt
  5. The facility head is offering an opinion which isn't backed up by test results. Yes, all the metal parts may have been grounded once upon a time, but did he actually periodically test them? Qualified personal? Any report?
  6. On no account the organization should accept the verbal assurances.
  7. Where is the test report filed, stating the fault that has been remedied that caused the electric shock? What defense does the organization have if the individual that received the electric shock makes a claim?

Many many big thanks...to all i even borrowed some words hope its ok

"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." -- Horace Mann

you guys give real meaning for the statement

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#12
In reply to #10

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 4:27 AM

Well, that lot is the sort of questioning for which a proper investigation will find answers. However, by getting someone to fix the problem, there is now no scope for the investigation to take place.

If the employee that received the shock now makes a civil claim for compensation, the organisation now has no evidence with which to defend the claim.

Lesson #1: preserve and record evidence.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#15
In reply to #10

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 11:16 AM

The head appears to be implying that an ELCB or similar is installed. This would not always stop someone getting a shock to ground, but it should cut the power in a very short amount of time.

I "tested" one accidentally at work about 15 years ago, painful, but not life threatening....

I have one on each phase coming into my house, but sadly, the laws here do not actually require that. The UK does require it if I remember correctly....

I would have suggested that the Head turn on the AC (before the repairs) himself, in front of all the workers!!!!!!

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 85
Good Answers: 2
#14

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 5:43 AM

employ a good electrician in the plant. All your problem will be solved.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: srilanka
Posts: 2725
Good Answers: 5
#16
In reply to #14

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 11:36 AM

There should be awareness in the mind of management.

__________________
pnaban
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 196
Good Answers: 6
#17

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 5:48 PM

All equipment grounds/earths should be tested and the results recorded at least once annually and any/every time the equipment is worked on or replaced in order to protect personnel from electrical contact exposure.

Due to the quantity and severity of worker injury from energized electrical equipment contacts we in the USA are about to be required to test these circuits and record the results on a monthly basis.

It does sound a bit overwhelming and labor intensive for any size of company however, resultant litigation and monetary awards which far exceed the cost of audit implementation are gaining momentum.

It is easy for the casual observer to cast a one-sided, after-the-fact judgement but to the person or persons affected by the injury, dehabilatation and/or death caused from the needless electrical contact, it seems to me to be a small price for any company to pay.

The fact that stands glaringly out when something like this takes place is that usually the equipment's unsafe condtion was/is well known in advance of the incident and not one person reported or corrected it.

From your description of the investigation and the "knee-jerk" reaction from management to invoke damage control, I would venture a guess that there was/is willful neglect of electrical equipment maintenance on a regular basis.

All this being said; Each and every person in the workplace really needs to wake up and stop tolerating unsafe conditions.

REPORT IT, FOLLOW THROUGH, AND GET IT FIXED BEFORE SOMEONE GETS HURT!

This simple exercise would dramatically improve our workplace safety environment, improve productivity, and lower plant operating costs.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: srilanka
Posts: 2725
Good Answers: 5
#18
In reply to #17

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 10:38 PM

Is the labour office monitoring health and safety of workmen?. Their Inspector of factories should visit regularly as well as whenever an incident is reported and check records, whether protective weras were used,condition of equipment/affected persons and properties and take the management to task. The management won't care if government(labour office) don't punish employers.

__________________
pnaban
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 1975
Good Answers: 117
#21
In reply to #17

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

11/01/2012 9:17 AM

I concur with everything in this statement. It should not be about finding blame, but rather, ensuring there is somebody responsible, and holding them accountable for people's lives. If managers actually DID this all on their own like they are supposed to do, there would not be any need for a union! But human nature being what it is, we would all rather let things go...do it the cheap way...skip steps...skip that expensive testing and maintenance. The fact that the OP was actually appointed to this job means that somebody realized that there is a problem, and it needs to be addressed. So the OP has quite a task ahead of him.

As a former safety supervisor myself, I can assure him that he will be universally detested by both management and by his co-workers. management because his suggestions will all be expensive and involve changes in management style, and by his co-workers because they will be forced to wear heavy boots, confining gloves, foggy eye protection and I-pod resistant ear protection.

The only up side is that he will be able to sleep well at night knowing that his efforts will do more to save lives and injury in his workplace than any other single person in the company.

__________________
If it was easy anybody could do it.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4528
Good Answers: 106
#19

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

10/31/2012 11:10 PM

If the old cable can be found, then save it for testing. The problem may be in the outlet (bad connection to neutral and ground). Even though the AC is working, there may still be a safety issue.

What kind of manager appoints a person without electrical background to be in charge of safety of electrical devices? Insanity.

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10
#20
In reply to #19

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

11/01/2012 12:21 AM

This appointment as person in charge for safety in our organization not only covers the elctrical but overall and but then its a small organization. That's the reason i registered in this forum and seek help...anyway its a good decision...i mean joining the forum. The insanity remains...

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: off the beaten track, not quite whoop whoop nor humptydoo
Posts: 57
#22

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

11/02/2012 6:41 PM

Apologies for repetition of other's excellent advice.

what are the requirements for test and tagging of workplace equipment? does your company perform regular periodic inspections in accordance with regulations? when was the aircon last tested? when was the ELCB last tested (time tested as well as push button)? where are the records? Last time I checked ELCBs had a failure rate slightly above 5%

I hope the technician is appropriately qualified - check their licence too

If there is no system in place for periodic inspection then use this as an opportunity to get one now. In my experience get an in-house electrician to do it as cheap contractors may become negligent. I hate test and tagging but when i started here 3 years ago I found too many faults in workshop equipment to leave it to the local contractor. I know the people I work with and care enough to do what i can to ensure the equipment is safe.

As for the Facility Head... I'll leave that to your imagination

__________________
Everything works out in the end, just not neccessarily how you want
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10
#23
In reply to #22

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

11/04/2012 8:05 PM

Thanks..currently there is no proper system in place for periodic inspection, rightly said... we'll use this as an opportunity to get one now but need to get the commitment from the facility guy...any formats?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 1975
Good Answers: 117
#24
In reply to #23

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

11/05/2012 12:04 AM
__________________
If it was easy anybody could do it.
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Active Contributor

Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 10
#25
In reply to #24

Re: Worker Electrical Shock Verify the Root Cause

11/07/2012 12:17 AM

thank you so much...

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 25 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

ahad (5); Andy Germany (1); Chook (1); k.v.gopalakrishnan (1); pnaban (3); PowerG (1); PWSlack (4); SHOCKISCAN (1); StandardsGuy (1); Stuart21 (1); TonyS (1); user-deleted-1105 (1); Yahlasit (1); Yusef1 (3)

Previous in Forum: 11kV /13.8 kV System Grounding Methods for Offshore FPSO   Next in Forum: LA Rating Calculation

Advertisement