Unbias in Engineering

What, in the name of all that's logical, are you talking about???????????

You might be able to call him a Dirty Duck without having the administrators remove your post and replace it with a warning.

Sorry for the spelllin mstake. It shouldv been Dirtie Duck.

Hear here! Well said.

Wait... "...we all have a responsiblity to mentor these young men and women as they struggle through school."

Is there a recent CR4 discussion that you had that prompts this outporing of altruism?

no, it's a truthism that i've followed all my life.

don't get me wrong, but many of the regulars on this site have there own egotistical agendas. that's exactly my point. does cr4 have ANY type criteria requarding comments to the o.p. other than "off comment". should'nt we have an agena as to where we all work for the benifit of o.p.?
i would like this site to move in this direction.

Nobody is truly unbiased, and most too political posts are removed. So what is the problem? Are the regulators, too left, too right or not righ or left enough?

We like the feedback if you have it! (or at least I do ) If you ever feel something is amiss, don't be afraid to hit the lil' ol' report button, and we'll take a gander at what ails you, even if it's one of us!

Also, if you notice something odd, you can always email us, private message one of us, or shoot our CR4 Admin group a message.

I agree with Epke though, almost everything is going to have some flair of bias.

You know, it's actually a good thing that these delicate snowflakes students learn that the real world can be harsh and unforgiving.

This is true, but it doesn't hurt to offer some small bit of advice and then ask for more details / explain why their idea is horrible, which most of you guys do most of the time

There is some merit in what you say. None of us here were born with an understanding of the way things work, we all had to learn things somehow.

However, I find it difficult to believe that we are the first group of people that tell an individual that an overunity device will not work and why. Clear thinking, an acceptance that some things simply are the way they are.

I took extra courses in college recently, and the professor was flunking students because poor grammar, punctuation as well as sentence structure.

These students were in their 3rd year of college. There was allot of sulking, ^{(And by sulking, I mean Bitching).}

The professor's response:

Your in your third year of college. If you don't know the basics by now of at least of a 3rd year college student should know. I will not let you see your 4th year.

Refreshing

BINGO!!!!!!

I couldn't agree more with that Professor. Back in the day I was 'holding court" as a MSCE student teaching Undergrad students (and later as a PhD candidate teaching Grad students), you wouldn't believe the high degree poor grammar, poor spelling, poor punctuation, poor sentence structure, and overall poor thought processes that I was encountering. A whole lot of atrociousness! From my POV, this poor work wasn't going to fly in my classroom. I was there to teach engineering principals. I wasn't there to teach the basic principals of the English language. They should have learned that long before entering college, or at the very least, should have learned it by the end of their Freshman year. I often wonder how some of these students made it as far as they did without knowing the basics. I graded accordingly on everything ranging from homework assignments, papers, essays, quizzes, and examinations. And I heard a whole bunch of gripping and sour grapes, but I stuck to my guns. sometimes, disgruntled students would go bitch to their Adviser, or the Dean of the Civil Engineering program. Both backed me up, as their stance was quite similar to mine.

I look at it this way: if you cannot properly convey your thoughts on paper to others in a rational manner, then how are you going to make it in the real world, later on as a young engineer, who cannot express your ideas and thoughts in an appropriate manner?

In regard to the OP's statement: I have lived my entire professional life living with the premise that mentoring in necessary of young engineers and technical people in order to pass the knowledge and experience base from one generation to the next, I also found that it was increasingly frustrating that said people come into the CR4 Forum looking for a freebie ride.

They haven't done the necessary leg work, research, studying (ie reading the assigned textbook for example), and completing their homework on their own. IMPO, most of this is based on sheer laziness and wanting to skate through life with a minimal amount of effort completed on their part, yet desiring the highest grades and subsequently the highest amount of compensation later after school.....call it "the entitlement attitude", or simply, "getting something for nothing".

Enough said, as I have a headache of epic proportions this morning!

Just curious as all hell IF Lyndoor Industries peddles this glorious Gizmo?

Okay, what will it cost me, my first born? Throw in an arm or leg for good measure?

Yeah, freezing keyboards remotely is the ticket! LOL Or, some sort of generated "ping" to certain addie.........

We're working on it, but development has been slow. It seems that by the time we've gotten a healthy buzz on, we don't give a crap about work and just turn on the video games, order pizza and kill the rest of the day.

LynDoor™Industries: No sacrifice is to great for our customers!

Thanks,

Your comment of:

From my POV, this poor work wasn't going to fly in my classroom. I was there to teach engineering principals. I wasn't there to teach the basic principals of the English language.

Sometimes that is what is needed, is someone to challenge you and not go as business as usual. Unfortunately, people look at it as uncooperative or someone that has an agenda. When all that was, was actually being a mentor as well as doing your job and fulfilling your responsibility.

It's interesting, because I thought he/she was addressing me. I knew I became sloppy and relied on content.

It was actually (2) professor in two separate class that did this. They were new and was just hired on as temporary. And new to the institution, they had experience.

As I talked to them, when I received my paper back, I actually thanked him/her for that cold slap in the face. Even though, I was guilty. what they were referring to is that some of the work that they received was just plain ghastly.

They gave an example, if you had to write a professional lab report or a presentation to give in front of a board of directors of a company, to have this type of quality was an embarrassment.

And than added, that these same students really had nothing to worry about.

Why? Because with that type of work, they never would have been hired in the first place.

I looked at those professors as mentors,..........that happened to be 10 years younger than me.

" ...Your in your third year....."???!?

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Yes, I caught that to, two, too late to edit. And a mistake like that, was what was simular on my paper.

Thanks,

And let that be a good lesson to the O.P., when you're critical of others. You make damn sure your own ducks are in a row.

You can always report yourself and ask us to change it

Ahem, isn't that like putting a loaded gun to your temple?

they are so innocent.........

"... was what was simular on my paper."?

"Your in your third year of college"??????

A professor would have said "You're in your third year of college."

/grammar-nazi/off/

Edit: days late many dollars short.....

Thats ok, with you that makes 11, ............ I still out number you.

I am, an army of one! ^{thank god, because with two of me, I can do twice the damage.}

I'm curious to know. In what subjects would you be willing to be a mentor?

You seem to be the only one here with an agenda.

If Editor Crankshaft were participating, there might be an agenda. ξ

The problem I see here and it has been pointed out "What do you mean by Mentor?"

Do you mean to show and get them to agree on your views. "G.W. comes to mind?"

And to mentor, who are "we", and how to we become "we"?

And an example, you put yourself in the category as "we". and here is an example.

the only way this blog can have any meaningful input in/re to the the o.p's question ,is to get rid of politicics that seems to goverenor this site. i hope we are all secure enough in our profressions that we can tolerate new comments from people who still fell unconfortable about being belittle? by the members that consider this site to be their prtivate domain. as professionals, i feel we all have a responsiblity to mentor these young men and women as they struggle through school.'

I should not have to point it out, but I did. And the reason why is, it is rather condescending to be lectured with these type of post. If it had to categorized, I would label it as hypocritical.

Also don't confused challenging someones position with being intolerant.

It is one thing, to have spell checker errors, it's another to be just lazy, inadequate, or even filled with one's own wisdom as one sees it. Is this a mentor?

The other thing you have to realize, is that this is a blog, not a novel. Its a place where you share ideas. And you would be surprised where ideas can come from.

You also have to realize that content is only a part of mentoring, and a small part at that.

One does not go out and say, I going to be a mentor to this person. You are given that label by someone who respected you on who you are and after what you did for them. And they label you as their mentor.

But that is just my opinion.

If a student asks for help understanding something, that student is likely to get a boatload of help. On the other hand, if they simply ask for the answer to a homework type of problem, they will get shot down by all but a few of us.

Perhaps we should, in shooting down an OP, ask what they don't understand about the problem.

Sometimes, I write my response in Word and then block it over. All kinds of red underlines then appear because I have Word set for English English most of the time.

So where does just being snarky for the sake of it fit into all of this?

Is it a political motivation or an educational deficit or personality trait or something else entirely?

As with any forum, you post at your own risk. Since this is Globalspec, you can be sure that there will be someone out there willing to give you a written cold-cock to the jaw, no matter what the subject is. Just grow a set and go on better learned.

Now about that Chevy Cavalier that won't start.....

I totally and fundamentally disagree with that statement.

Now, having said that, it isn't really an issue for debate. I won't convince you, and you won't convince me to change our feelings about that. I'm certain there are equal numbers of people that would line up on both sides of that divide. It comes down to basic principles that we both hold dear.

As for my belief, although I agree that the situation you've described exists, I don't feel we should accept it as the status quo, and not try to better it, or improve that situation. I don't feel that that type of interaction between people is acceptable. I think it's a cause worthy of efforts to better, whenever possible.

To clarify what I mean... let me point out that mankind, the world over, is divided into millions of "groups" that have things in common; whether it be groups formed by occupation, like we have here in CR4; or groups formed by religious or political affiliation; or hobbies; or even race. Each of those groups possesses a particular dynamic within itself, of the way that people treat each other. Within some groups there is absolute harmony. While other groups are full of vitriol. And there exists every gradient in between. That being the case, for every level of harmony, there is always another group who possesses better harmony, kinship, brotherhood, respect, kindness, etc. Therefor... it is always possible to strive for something better, because something better does exist.

So I don't believe that the necessity exists to simply accept things as they are and "grow a set" is what we must live with. My set is just fine, thank you. But I believe humanity can always treat each other better than currently is the case within any particular group of people. I believe mankind, as a whole, is better than that. Not individually, but as a whole. And that those that are in the middle ground have a decision to make.

That's my opinion. I'm sure others will disagree.

"Within some groups there is absolute harmony."

OoBE,

Care to name a few of them?

Ace

Perhaps Tibetan Monks, or a support group for mothers of babies that died of SIDS, or victims of some common tragedy... the list is endless. Not absolute, but closer to absolute. People who don't get what I mean are never going to get what I mean. That's why I said it's fundamental to people's core beliefs. They differ. But that's my belief. That's also why I said I won't debate this, I'll only clarify my point of view.

I agree completely that improvement is something worth striving for.... which I think is the main thrust of your comment.

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The support for that noble cause went a bit astray though. The progression of logic derails when you introduce the idea that some groups exist in perfect harmony,and then use this for to extrapolate the possibility of improvement for everyone.

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Aside from the problem that if one group is already perfect, then not everyone can strive for improvement, the most important distinction is that the existence of something better is not a necessary condition for improvement. This is one of the great things about people there is the potential for improvement beyond what currently exists.

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I do agree with your statements, not individually, but as a whole.

I overstated my case when I used the word "absolute" harmony. Nothing is absolute, as we all know. But relatively speaking, some groups are far more harmonious than others. And that is what I meant I believe should be striven for. Only improvement.

Your reply earns some respect from me (and a GA )....

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It is pretty easy for a lot of people to talk a good game about things like striving for improvement and harmony. Your demonstrated openness to reevaluate and then proclaim yous stated something in error, without apparent ego struggles, suggests you are walking the walk, not just talking the talk.

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Perhaps Tibetan Buddhists don't hold a monopoly on realizing harmony through non-attachment.

My point exactly!!

durtieduck,

Where are you??????

You started this mess, now come on back and defend yourself!!!!!!