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Thermo-Electricity

11/24/2012 9:02 PM

I, along with thousands of others heat with what is commonly but improperly called outdoor wood boilers. Ignoring all the controversy with their use, my question for the group is this. Assuming there is a constant (more or less) flow of heat through the stack, would it be possible to have a cost effective bi-metalic generator mounted in the hot air flow. I know nothing about the output of this type of unit. I'm guessing very low volts almost no amps DC. The purpose would be to charge batteries to run rhe unit in a power down situation from the high line. I know solar or wind would do the same thing, it bothers me to see all the waisted heat.

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#1

Re: Thermo-electricity

11/24/2012 9:33 PM

I'd use the waste heat to heat water.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Thermo-electricity

11/24/2012 9:38 PM

A good ole boy would heat something else, and then condense part....

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Thermo-electricity

11/24/2012 9:45 PM

Had distant relatives, and school mates, who made shine.

Not in their houses, though.

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#4

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/24/2012 10:35 PM

Just google thermo electric generator. There are dozens of manufacturers on the web. Or if you are handy, you can build one yourself.

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#5

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/24/2012 10:38 PM

Leaving it well enough alone is a viable option, too.

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#6

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/25/2012 3:58 AM

I don't think you will generate significant electricity.
Maybe just enough to operate a fan to get the gasses moving up the stack again, now that the natural convection has stopped due to the reduced temperature differential.
Del

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#7

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/25/2012 10:55 AM

Two points:

  1. Yes it is possible. Do a search on "Peltier Effect Generator".
  2. You will need more money than sense to have it perform anything useful for you from the heat exhaust of a wood stove. They are very expensive for what you get out of them in terms of useable power. You would likely do better boiling water and making a steam powered engine generator. From scratch.
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#8

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/25/2012 3:39 PM

An example of thermo-electricity is direct pilot flame impingement on a typical residential hot water heater's thermocouple (known as a "thermocoupler" by many in the trades), which generates sufficient DC current and voltage to hold-in the gas safety shutoff solenoid coil.

So, yes, electrical power can be generated from heat, but given the costs, as Jraef points out, it's not usually considered economically feasible.

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#9

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/25/2012 6:30 PM

The principle is good however the output is not - consider a different type of system

such as steam - it is dangerous and you need safety devices in place to stop it exploding from over preasure etc but the output is far more consistant which is what you want to drive a steam based motor which in turn will drive an alternator , you need to study the pricipals and power outputs and make sure safeties are installed

RobM

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#10
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Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/25/2012 8:40 PM

I thank all of you for the input. I did not think it would be cost effective, but did not want to spend a great deal of time and money trying to "re-invent the wheel". The system is already heating water for home heating. The system is non pressurized, max temp 185d/F. I've worked with boilers, gas/oil and solid fuel,and a solid fuel boiler needs a constant fireman-engineer. Way beyond anything I want to deal with. Again thanks.

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#11

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/25/2012 8:57 PM

Check out this site, it gives specs on some really old thermopile technology similar to what you're looking at:

http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/POWER/thermoelectric/thermoelectric.htm

Left: The Improved Clamond Thermopile: 1879.

The EMF of this pile was no less than 109 Volts, with an internal resistance of 15.5 Ohms. The maximum power output was therefore 192 Watts, at 54 Volts and 3.5 Amps.

This pile was fired by coke. The hot junctions were at C, while the cold junctions D were cooled by sheet iron as in the original design above. What purpose was served by the tortuous path T-O-P taken by the hot gases is unclear, because there seem to have been no hot junctions in the inner sections.
This beast was 98 inches high and 39 inches in diameter.

It was a serious piece of machinery, quite capable of delivering a lethal voltage.

From "Electricity in The Service of Man"
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#17
In reply to #11

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/27/2012 6:54 PM

RAMConsultant, excellent link, thaks for that!

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#12

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/26/2012 1:52 AM

We had a commercial T-E generator that was used to supply remote power, 90 W continuous, for a broadcast link for emergency services before satellites etc. It ran for a month off one 20lb gas bottle and was safe, silent and ultra reliable. It got warm but not hot except in the small chimney.

Inside the encloure however....

The unit had an Antimony - Bismuth thermocouple, which give the best Voltage for a given heat differential. The cold side touched a small tank of water and the hot side ran about 260 deg C, just below cherry red. The tank had fins.

Both the metals above are toxic so the thermocouple unit was carefully sealed in a tinned enclosure with just two wires coming out. Inside is just like a high voltage radio battery with a matrix of interconnections. The unit is 4 inches by 8 inches by about 3/4 inch thick, and fairly heavy for its size.

A good lalternative to Solar and Wind if yu are in a cold valley with lots of trees and you heat with wood.

Various army units also used these for radio comms. Although the design is decptively simple there are tricks in handling these elements and avoiding health problems to yourself and others. Therefore I would strongly reccomend using good quality industrial grade units rather than trying to make one from scratch.

Remember also army units are often used as a last resort and though well made the combat survivability is more important than the environmental colleteral damage if you catch my drift.

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/26/2012 8:00 AM

We had a commercial T-E generator

Who was the mfg?

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#14

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/26/2012 10:25 AM

I have played around with using Peltier coolers running in reverse to make small TE power packs out of them and most of the newer high powered ones can in fact produce several watts of usable power without a a massive heat differential across them.

I made one from a old computer processor TE cooler that originally ran at about 20 watts input at 12 volts. With a pair of aluminum heatsinks epoxied to it I could set it in a pan of hot water and put ice shavings on the larger top heatsink and get about 1.5 volts at 1 - 1.5 amps load with it or the rough equivalent to what a good D size battery could put out.

I donated it to a local elementary schools science dept with a set of instructions on how to use it. The kids think its really neat how hot water and ice can make electricity just like a battery!

So yes with a bit of tinkering you can set up a TE generator with your hot flue gases as the heat source but you will need a good number of TE units to get any good levels of electrical power out of the process!

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/26/2012 10:38 AM

But where did the energy come from to make the ice???

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Thermo-Electricity

11/27/2012 10:01 AM

We call it snow and for much of the year around here its free whether we want it or not!

Technically I think the energy to make it came from the water itself.

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Haroldus (1); Iris (1); JRaef (3); Kilowatt0 (1); leveles (1); lyn (2); mikenelson6 (1); RAMConsult (1); robM (1); tcmtech (2); Tornado (1); user-deleted-1105 (1); walt (1)

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