Frying Electronics With CHAMP

When I was in Ireland once I had fried chicken with Champ. Actually very tasty. Not sure how good fried electronics with Champ would be. I suppose fried chips with champ would be ok, but kind of redundant... potatoes with a side of potatoes. Well, maybe in Ireland; they do like potatoes.

Impressive technology. It just means the next war will be fought with sticks and stones.

We have never held on to new technology for long. The release of this test data is signs of that. Why warn the enemy that you have such a weapon, surprise them. Seems our government has gotten pretty good at put forth sensitive information. Whether it's now some not so secret weapon or personal info leak as in the Kelly case.

Plus someone out there corrupt enough to want to make a buck. And we have to keep our friends safe so we will give it to them.

I guess this means we should all invest in some old fashioned valve transmitter/receivers.

Or cans with string attached to each end.

I've been letting my mind wander on the possible scenarios that could come with that technology. It's mind boggling.

They're relatively cheap too, and unlike bombs, can be used over and over again.

I'm thinking you might be able to cost the "enemy" a lot more if you turned the power down to a level which damaged just enough of the electronics to start things misbehaving a bit.

That way you might be able to get them to close down the project believing that the problems were due to incompetence; without ever realising that they'd been "hit".

I'm thinking knock down everything, and within a few days to a week, thirst and hunger will drive them to kill each other.

What bothers me about this type of weapon system is that it's a "dominance" weapon. It's designed for use, not against the military forces of an opposing military power, but against protesters and insurgents.

EMP weapons -- which is what this is -- can always be defeated by proper shielding of electronic equipment. It's not a trivial matter to design in "proper shielding" and make sure there are no "sneak paths" by which strong pulses can get into a system and fry delicate components. But it can be and is done for serious military command and control systems. It's rarely done for commercial systems. So this is a weapon system designed for use against civilians and soft targets -- to take out smart phones and the comm systems of 3rd world nations.

I don't necessarily like the implications of what a weapon like this could do, (particularly in the wrong hands), but I think it's a stretch to say that it was designed specifically for use against civilians and soft targets.

There's not much information on it, but I'm thinking that disabling the military capabilities of our enemies would be priority #1.

Iran's nukes would be a good place to start.

Using weapons like this though, becomes very scary..............not because of what we could do with them, but because of what someone else could do with them, should one fall out of the sky due to a malfunction or something.

This isn't a magic new technology. It's just an advanced electromagnetic pulse weapon. The point is that EMP weapons aren't and can't be effective against a serious military force. They can only be effective against civilian infrastructure and forces trying to use commercial devices to organize and communicate.

Microwaves aren't magic or new. I think this particular use of them is.

Did you bother to read the article?

HPM can take out fighter planes, tanks, ships, and missile systems. But it can also wipe out facilities for developing nuclear weapons. America's national laboratories have been working on these capabilities for decades. Unlike an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) created by detonating a nuclear weapon in the atmosphere, HPM leaves intact civilian facilities needed to sustain life.

I read the article from Boeing -- not the Newsmax story. Figured the latter was likely to be hype.

What's new is the technology that enables a high power repeating pulsed microwave generator to be flown in a missile. There's nothing new about microwave pulses, per se, or the effects that they can have on electronic circuits.

I worked for Boeing 30 years ago, and one of the things I was involved in was hardening systems against EMP. Of course, the pulses we were concerned about weren't focused microwave pulses; they were broad spectrum EMP from detonation of nuclear weapons. But that doesn't change the approach to shielding in a significant way.

Radar systems do present a challenge for hardening. You can't put the whole system inside a Faraday cage; it would block the antenna. But optical couplings, Schottky diodes, and metal-oxide varisters can do wonders.

I don't know anything about the standards to which Iran's military systems happen to be built, but they're fools if they have left themselves vulnerable to this sort of weapon. So I still say that what this is is a cellphone killer.

We can only guess at how this thing works.

The best guess I can come up with, is that the effect would be similar to what would happen to wire in a microwave oven. I'm not sure if common shielding methods would be of any help.

Old concept, new media hype. Suggest research on the history of HPM (High Power Microwave) devices. Many types of (non-nuclear) one-shot and multiple-shot devices have been proposed over the last 2-3 decades. EMP hardened (shielded) targets would not be affected.

Concern for many years has been that home-made (terrorist) HPM weapons could seriously disrupt some of our financial institutions and/or critical civil communications. The Boeing device just proves that this threat IS possible. Use of the Boeing device against quasi-military soft targets (i.e. terrorist groups) and non-friendly civilian targets may justify the cost of further development.

Cell phone communications and computers (outside a Faraday shield) are certainly prime targets for this device. Disruption of the control systems of fissionable material enrichment facilities would be another potential application. Use or misuse of any weapon system raises many ethical and moral debate issues.

Yeah. The "new" part seems to be the ability to mount them on unmanned aircraft.

Countermeasures are already being worked on.

http://www.economist.com/node/21532245

I had the misfortune of of picking my truck up from the dealership just after A fairly powerful earthquake hit. The dealership had also taken me quite literally when I told them to drive this thing until they find the problem. Over half a tank when I dropped it off empty when I got it back.

That was about 20 years ago. I always tried to have at least a small amount of money with me at all times that day I didn't. All the ATMs, credit card machines, ETC no longer function (phone lines down and so forth. If I hadn't found a gas station that still had one of the old slide machines I would've been trapped for hours.

We are far more dependent on Electronic Technology now than we were then. I'm sure I would be more concerned if I lived in the area and found a lunatic regime building parts for nuclear weapons. Though I cannot prove it I believe even those maniacs could count megatons. They would love to take down western civilization. A large high atmosphere burst would take down a large percentage of commercial satellites within a matter of months. And even military equipment will experience failures over enough time.

Moral of this story don't throw away all your old maps, your GPS cell phones, credit card readers and the hundreds of other things you have come to rely on, they may be going by by someday. Keep some cash with you I always do, though with the price of gasoline I'm thinking about hiring a brinks guard.

PS. I had a friend of work for Hughes aircraft at the time a very talented electronics man. When one of those fairly new MIG defected to Japan he was sent over to take a look at it. The military was constantly trying to harden their equipment against EMP.

His gloating slowly turned into a somewhat gloomy look. The aircraft had one purpose to fly very fast for a short time and shoot down the xb 70, which never went into production. He said they were 20 years behind us . They were so technically remedial that they were still using miniaturized vacuum tubes. And since vacuum tubes were much more tolerant to EMP than solid state circuitry they were literally almost 20 years a head of US in hardening their electronics against EMP.

Yeah. Our complete reliance on technology and computerized systems is pretty scary. One massive solar flare, and everything changes over night.

Russia is still the only known source for new vacuum tubes of certain types.The tube industry left the USA when solid state electronics became dominant.

I still repair old tube type radios as a hobby,and there are still some usable old tubes around,some NOS,but they are becoming rare.(NOS= New Old Stock)

HAM operators will be the first form of communication to get back online in the event of an EMP.

Tvs have now left the analog age and are more like a computer than an old NTSC tv set.

Vehicles are controlled by on board computers and drive by wire will soon be common technology on all forms of transportation.Pilotless aircraft,vehicles,ships,etc., which will make the whole system even more vulnerable.

As for me, I will hang on to my old pre-computer vehicles that used points and plugs,hydraulic/mechanical brakes,diaphragm fuel pumps,manual steering.I may be a stick in the mud, but I will be able to get around,instead of standing there wondering"DUH! WHUT HAPPENED?"

I have a few old manual hand operated fuel pumps, because your local filling stations will not be able to operate.

I am not buried away someplace in a cave,but I always like to have an alternate plan.

I can hunt, skin an animal,build a fire from scratch,survive alone in hostile environments if necessary.Not that I would like to, or that I do not enjoy modern conveniences,but I am not comfortable with them knowing how fragile they are.

I am plugged in, but I have redundancy mode on standby.

Don't worry, be happy!

That presupposes that Iran is an enemy.

Not really. It presupposes that Iran should not have nuclear weapons capability.

The inference in part of the story is that this device emits these electronic killing microwaves while in flight, i.e., "The missile renders inoperable any radar that might detect it as it flies to and from a target."

This scares me and should concern anyone from the perspective that it would be possible to eliminate a portion of any population which relies on medical implants of any type. Imagine what would happen if an individual with a cochlear implant or embedded pacemaker were zapped by this device.

This is another type of weapon of mass destruction in any sense.

Do they make a model I can mount on my pickup to zap the idiot next to me with the thousand watt base speaker set up in his car?

Wouldn't that be nice!

I was actually thinking of something similar, but have them mounted on Humvees to take out these damned IED's.

If they have wiring in them, it should work.

not back to the stone age, back to the telegraph, and as long the guns have no chips, we will still be able to shoot each other, back to vacuum tubes?

After having worked completely online for 12+ years and having the plug literally pulled out from me from my employer a few states away, who, through an illegal blanket termination, let go of all its telecommuters.

Even though this was a blatant breach of contract and the company didn't pay the last four (4) paychecks of all those people, it basically got away with doing it because we all worked 1099 and without the lost compensation none of us were able to travel to Virginia to sue the company, nor would any local, state or federal government agency assist. After speaking to an attorney in Virginia for a consult fee using my last (at the time) $35.00, I found that despite the fact I'd win hands down, the attorney felt he didn't want the case and so, unless I personally traveled to the State of Virginia, I was s**t out of luck.

Almost immediately afterward and for the next 5-1/2 months, I lost all those electronic toys such as Internet access (except via public library), smart cell phone, any phone service really and you don't know what it means until it happens to you.

You're barely a person without being on Facebook, constant email contact and cell phone service. Finances are more than difficult to keep under control when you can't check the balances online (public libraries don't allow financial access / transactions for the most part).

It was a non-existance until, at the very end of last month I finally got back online, after working the last few months at the only job I was able to get, a p/t minimum wage position. After putting out 175 resumes in a 50 mile/tri-state area, I was let down to the fact that this job really was the only thing available in today's market in my area, despite my 20+ years of experience and higher education.

If you get thrown off the grid like that, then kicked into the gutter, you earn a new respect for the tech we've all come to suckle from...but for the record I've never used GPS as I'm old school for that ever since the GPS in our vehicle took us down a dirt road 50 mi. off track and in the opposite direction of our destination!?! I think the gas / oil companies might own them so they drive us in longer / wrong directions to ensure we buy more gas.

Personally, I hope for one day seeing the Tesla coil technologies that will allow free power to all...I loved that he was able to drive his car 90 mph in 1927 using no engine! Granted, it was in a limited range back then, but WOW!

Yes, we do rely on technology, and we can lose it at any time. Now that I'm working back on-ground (despite it being p/t and minimum wage, supplemented by 'Bamacare and Food Stamps - the Presidential dream) I can see that it allows me to do things like banking, shopping, communicating, etc...that I can't do when I'm not connected into the grid. On the other hand, it's a cruel mistress; one mishap, like the blanket termination and you go from everyone's online darling to an unknown street walker.

Perhaps some of you geniuses can engineer a better future where technology and nature work in harmony - maybe harness some natural powers that won't deplete or can be so easily destructed as with CHAMP?! Just a thought. :-)

Try reading the Book: One Second After by William R. Forstchen It'll open your eyes....... WIDE! P.S. Read the commentary before and after the book contents.

EMP can send you back to the dark ages pretty quick.

This gives a tiny bit more detail:

http://www.ece.unm.edu/faculty/edl/EdlPDF/POPSCI.pdf

The missile had turned off all the power in the targeted buildings.

That's what I was looking for. I was wondering if it just affected sensitive electronics, or if it was able to completely shut off the electrical supply.

http://defense.aol.com/2012/11/28/how-revolutionary-is-champ-new-air-force-microwave-weapon/?icid=related2

This weapon scares me because it would be most disruptive to our own military and economic systems rather than those of the type of enemies we have been fighting. It has no use against people in caves with AK47s or people employing roadside bombs and IEDs

Good point.

I was also thinking about the sheer sense of accomplishment that the Boeing guys had. Considering that this is old technology, I can't help but wonder what they aren't telling us.

Something has them excited.

Could a focused beam burn through a Faraday cage or shielding?

Would a small Faraday cage, placed in a microwave oven, be strong enough to keep the current out?

"This weapon scares me because it would be most disruptive to our own military and economic systems rather than those of the type of enemies we have been fighting. It has no use against people in caves with AK47s or people employing roadside bombs and IEDs."

HPM devices ARE useful against these threats. I found literature on at least one system currently used to disable, disarm, or block remote triggering of IEDs. HPM devices will also easily damage the civilian communication links used by terrorist cells. However, you are correct that very low tech communication (paper notes, smoke signals, etc.) will not be affected.

"Could a focused beam burn through a Faraday cage or shielding?"

Sufficient energy from a LASER certainly, but unlikely for EM radiation in the Microwave bands.

"Would a small Faraday cage, placed in a microwave oven, be strong enough to keep the current out?"

Yes! Wrap a potato in heavy foil, like you would for baking in a conventional oven, and "try" to cook it in your microwave oven. WARNING!! This can permanently DAMAGE your MW oven! You'll have a raw potato and a cooked MW oven ;-)

Every potential weapon system is always highly praised by the company developing it. The media hype is to promote more government FUNDING!

If enemies were able to easily thwart this technology with shielding and Faraday cages, it seems like a waste of time.

Any bunkers, control centers, etc. would be shielded. Well, actually, I take that back. Anything that relied on antennas or radar dishes would be vulnerable.

Proper grounding and shielding for EMP (and HPM) attack is not that simple. The damaging EM radiation can sneak in through many places. Without the proper training and experience, most attempts at shielding will fail. Established military organizations have the brain power and funding to effectively apply EMP hardening where needed.

I'm highly skeptical of some of the media claims about the new device. I find it difficult to believe that most military ships, tanks, and planes (which are basically METAL enclosures) have not been designed to be highly resistant to EMP type attacks.

Regarding sensationalized fiction about future EMP disasters, I have to side with the less glowing book reviews. While the story might be deeply entertaining and/or frightening to many, the premise that a whole continent can be immediately and permanently fried back to the stone (or tube) age is GROSSLY exaggerated.

I can understand the entertainment value of world-ending disaster scenarios. EMP, asteroid impact, divine retribution and zombie apocalypse stories can be very engaging. My confusion starts when people begin to believe these stories are highly probably events that will likely occur in the very near future. Have to go now. Need to finish building my underground survival bunker before 12-21-12

Antennas of any kind are isolated using HEMP enclosures in concert with fiber optics.

I sense that there's something unique about this new device, and it's capabilities.

Of course, considering that they leaked the test results, that may have been the objective.

Yes, it's called ASYMETRICAL STRIKE...

If the guys in the cave get's the ability to pull this off, they can become as powerful as us, simply by bringing us down to their level....

Something many people forget: a LOT of people will be keeling over dead when that CHAMP is deployed!

...specifically, those with emplanted pacemakers, defibrilators and/or brain devices!

Yup...that was point in post #8.

A wild thought just sprang out of my Dewar;s Gold Label bottle.Not given much thought to it in a logical analytical way, but what if the Champ is not a single frequency, but a stack of FM,AM,FSK, and multiple other modulation methods sent out on a single or multiple carrier envelopes,with the damage"Sneaking in" thru magnetic "holes" opened up by another frequency?

Can a glass sphere be broken by a resonant frequency, or will it null any frequency applied due to it's shape?My point here is can a Farday shield be made to generate a destructive harmonic within it's confines by application of the proper frequency from outside?

Imagine being in a room with reflective walls, and a frequency is selected that coincides with the resonant frequency of the room.

Sounds like star trek, I know, but Mr Dewar is quite persuasive when I listen to his song.When the music stops, I sometimes feel silly,so forgive me if this is the case here.

Why no icon for "Hic-cup!"?, or perhaps cross eyed drunk?

Work is the bane of the drinking man.

Cool theory!

It's amazing, the things that can be found hiding in a bottle of spirits.