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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Central New York
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Continuing Education

12/31/2012 4:29 PM

Back in my mis-spent youth, I worked on the NY canal system with original 1912 water turbines and GE 240vdc 150a generators. My boss, for some reason, disassembled one of the generators to the point of pulling the stator magnets off the frame. I got the job of putting it together. Got it together, wired correctly, had a diagram, but was unable to make power. I think I needed to charge the stator, but no one knew how.Or with what. I tried GE for information to no help.It is now a static display. I am looking for any input on what could make this work, not that it will, but knowledge is nice. Thanks Guys.

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#1

Re: Continuing Education

12/31/2012 4:53 PM

Just use a common car battery or several of them in series to re energize it by back feeding it to run as a basic motor at a lower voltage and speed.

All you are doing is giving the stator metal its basic magnetic charge back in order to tell it which way to start generating its own internal electromagnetic field power again when its being spun to work as a generator.

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#2

Re: Continuing Education

12/31/2012 4:56 PM

This might compare with the process called "flashing the field" to restore residual magnetism in some types of brushless gensets. No guarantee, but maybe worth investigating.

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#3

Re: Continuing Education

12/31/2012 8:12 PM

In the distant past Bill Fay of http://www.frenchriverland.com made a few postings on CR4. If you take a look at his web site you will get the impression that he will probably know the answer. His web site seems friendly and informative.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Continuing Education

12/31/2012 10:07 PM

Thanks BruceFl. That is an amazing site. Amazing company too. I thought that I needed to "flash" but my available Company resource was useless. Bill had the same problem on a build, and that was his solution. I thank you all for your time and help.

If anyone has access to the Erie Canal System, Look for a lock with an intact powerhouse and ask to see it. It will make you appreciate the old timers and how they did it.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Continuing Education

12/31/2012 10:17 PM

Happy to help. Anything Bill does is orders of magnitude beyond my work but I still treat his web site a little like the way a 8 year old treats the toy catalog in November. Anyone with a lathe you need a ladder to get to the top of and an end mill with a 10 foot bed has to be classified as "cool".

May I suggest you continue to drop by CR4 once in a while. There are a dozen or so consistent and many more inconsistent CR4 people that do interesting things and work on interesting problems from time to time. I think you would fit in well.

Bruce

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Continuing Education

12/31/2012 10:33 PM

Is the public normally allowed inside a working Erie Canal System power house?

Once upon a time my parents were showing us the Erie Canal and other historical sites. We somehow got into an old factory that was still run as a working factory by a couple of guys. There was a water wheel (at the dam on a river, not actual Erie Canal) that drove overhead shafts in both the first and second story of the factory.

There were dozens of big wide belts that transferred power from the overhead shafts to floor mounted equipment. There were huge levers that were used to engage and disengage the belts. Wooden floors with gaps in the planks, moving belts with no belt guards, big holes in the floor for belts or materials to pass through, overall an OSHA inspectors wet dream. I can't believe we got in there, I can't believe we were allowed to wander around for about an hour and I can't believe we all lived through it. But, it was amazing.

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#14
In reply to #6

Re: Continuing Education

01/03/2013 10:21 PM

With permission and a guide from the lock, most lockkeepers will open the powerhouse for visitors. Part of the tourism thing in NYS. I know lock 23 in brewerton is all there, and I think 18 in mohawk is complete.

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#7

Re: Continuing Education

01/01/2013 4:42 AM

One of our GE generators had a similar problem. We used two 6 volt flashlight batteries, hooked in series, to flash the field. You need to parallel the batteries to the field windings. This jump starts the residual magnetism in the pole pieces. It does not take much to re-energize the coils. After running for several months, we no longer needed the batteries.

We are currently replacing a 13 foot diameter wooden penstock with a steel penstock. Please see:

www.frenchriverland.com

Sincerely,

Bill Fay

PS: I stopped posting on CR4 because one of the moderators was very negative and sarcastic about my material and did not think it was of interest to any of you!

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Continuing Education

01/01/2013 7:24 AM

The "Frenchriverland" web site has been on my favorite list for a few years now. I think that what you folks can do and know is amazing. I've learned much and will continue to do so I am sure.

I manufacture wood bearings for these old hydro facilities still using Lignum and Impregnated Maple so I see quite a few of these old power houses, especially at the old paper mills here in Maine.

Keep up the good work and pay no intention to the negative moderator.

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: Continuing Education

01/01/2013 11:22 AM

Bill, welcome back to the CR4 Forum!

I find your website, and your work, absolutely fascinating. Every once in a while I have to stop in to see what project you're working on..... just to kick-start the creative juices!!!!

I only wish that I was still living and working in the Capital District, just to pop in and say hello, one CE to another CE.....

May you have continued success on your small hydro projects!

===CaptMoosie, P.E.

ps: That moderator that gave you grief should have been ashamed of themselves, and couldn't have been more "off-base" in their assertions. I think that you could add a lot of pertinent content material in this forum. Please have a Happy New Year!

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#13
In reply to #9

Re: Continuing Education

01/03/2013 2:02 PM

Well said... A GA from me...

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Continuing Education

01/01/2013 10:04 PM

Welcome back and please keep coming back. Your site and work is very interesting and shared very well.

I generally keep out of the line of fire and I still get my feathers ruffled every now and then on CR4. I just don't come back for a few days and don't think about the posting that has disappeared from the front page. It works for me. There is too much good here to walk away.

Welcome back,
Bruce

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#11
In reply to #7

Re: Continuing Education

01/02/2013 6:14 AM

Bill,

What glue do you use for lignum vitae? I haven't found anything yet that will hold under even minimal loads. When I build the quarter blocks, I typically true up my end grain blocks individually, drill two holes through each for through bolting, and finish bore each quarter block segment individually. After assembling the quarters I cut my chamfers. I've had great luck with these staying aligned. and once installed, the castings hold everything in place.

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Continuing Education

01/02/2013 2:00 PM

In the discussions held recently about what was wrong with CR4 and why the place seems less"interesting"...

"PS: I stopped posting on CR4 because one of the moderators was very negative and sarcastic about my material and did not think it was of interest to any of you!".

Here is your answer...

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#15

removing a 4000 pound flywheel from a deep hole

01/09/2013 6:05 AM

We had to remove a large flywheel from one of our turbine pits in preparation of installing our new Kiser turbine. The flywheel was used for rotational inertia to produce 60 cycle power. Since we are tied into the grid, we always operate at 60 cycles. This was not true in 1918 when the plant was built. At high river flows the water submerges the flywheel and the spokes throw water into the 5000 volt generator. We decided it should go. The flywheel had a split hub and a solid rim. You can not cut cast iron with an oxy-acetylene torch. We went down with a gasoline powered cut off saw. We cut the pinch bolts on the split hub and proceeded to cut the rim at two diametrically opposite sides that corresponded with the splits in the hub. The saw would not quite make it through the center of the rim. We got a 16 pound sledge hammer and a wood splitting wedge. We drove it in the cut and the flywheel fell apart in two pieces. We rigged the two halfs out of the pit. See:

https://picasaweb.google.com/frenchriverland/RemovingALargeFlywheel

Sincerely,

William K. Fay P.E.
West Ware, MA

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Users who posted comments:

BruceFlorida (4); CaptMoosie (1); Dave Boucher (2); frenchriverland (2); North of 60 (2); tcmtech (1); Tornado (1); walt (2)

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