Rare Metals in short supply.

Very, true, land-based mines are beginning to run low on many metals and minerals that are critical to our lifestyle.

We have yet to take advantage of the 2/3 of the world covered by water. Most major mining companies are pouring significant funds into researching ocean mining. From surveys, it seems there are indeed huge repositories of important materials. The basic technology needed to perform mining operations on the ocean floor is present (thanks to various Navys, oceanography, and ocean oil rigs), but not yet developed on scale. Ocean mining will begin near land in shallow water and gradually move out as technology and acceptance of the practice grow.

The potential environmental impacts of mining on the ocean floor are absolutely enormous. However, in today's culture of environmental awareness, it is possible that ocean mining will become the most eco-friendly mining process in history. It kind of has to be to prevent public outcry.

A possibly more economical and definitely more environmentally sound possibility is mining our trash dumps, combined with conservation and recycling.

Methane gas from covered landfills is already being captured to produce electricity, run large scale kilns, and to produce steam for industrial processes. The burning of methane releases CO2, but since methane is a much stronger greenhouse gas, this is a very 'green' source of energy. I think it could become standard practice to capture methane from landfills for a number of years, then begin digging up the trash for recycling once the gas production wanes.

You all pose a possible solution to the problem of finding new sources of the platinum family of rare metals. Look back to 1973, when the U.S. and Russia were at the height of the Cold War, nuclear threats, etc. Howard Hughes financed, perhaps with the help of the CIA, the building of the Glomar Challenger, by the Sun Shipbuilding and Dry Dock Corp. A Russian submarine had been lost (sunk) some 750 NW of Hawai'i, and the Glomar Challenger was built with the primary purpose of raising the Russian sub from some 17,000 feet (5,200 meter) below the surface of the Pacific Ocean. Supposedly, the bow (i.e., nuclear torpedoes, tubes and reloads) broke away from the remaining portion of the hull as the sub was raised. That was 30-plus years ago. Certainly, the technology is there to explore the ocean bottoms and mine promising areas. Perhaps starting near deep sea vents and areas where the continents are being subducted and new material is rising.

Maybe we should also start mining at the landfills where we bury all the precious metals when it's time for a new phone, MP3, TV whatever. Or better yet, recycle before we bury it.

I think the person in New Scientist shouting about the planet running out of everything (eg metals, platinum etc) is alarmist and perhaps silly. FIRSTLY: Only a very very tiny fraction of the earth's surface is currently mined, and even deep mines only go a very small way into the earths crust. Huge tract of land on and in the earth have never even been surveyed in detail for minerals. SECONDLY through volcanic activity new sources of minerals are continually being brought to the earth's surface; THIRDLY: matter cannot be created or destroyed (at least in the normal course of human activities). The metals we use end up somewhere, such as waste dumps, and probably in concentrated form relative to the average patch of earth. Proper recycling is certainly going to happen someday (As the economics of mining waste dumps become better that the economics of mining deeper, for example. If I were an engineer who knew how to do it, I'd certainly start mining dumps right now! Meanwhile, I'll invest in platinum /rhodium mining and exploration companies and enjoy the profits while they last, which will be long after Ive been recylcled myself. And as an ecologist i'll do my bit to make sure mining doesnt wreck our wild places.

Hi Brainwave.

I guess you take that "i have catalytic properties" thing pretty seriously.

The "we're running dangerously low of "enter threat of the week here" crowd" never seem to take into account the role of engineers and technological improvements at reducing the need for their endangered specie of the month.

Lets take copper.

Remember the backplane of your first computer? how bout that parallel port. Lot of copper ehh?

Now look at todays computers serial ports- 90% reduction in copper- easy.

I don t even see any copper in my usb conector, but I know there is some .

The planet will always have enough of what we need, as long as we apportion it via free market economy. When the do-gooders and govt planners get their hands in it, then all hell breaks loose. ask anybody trying to get a telephone installed in romania for example, before the fall of the soviets.

When the price of platinum rises enough, Putin will let go of some of the soviet hoard, but strategically, to gain advantage over the west. MAybe even some of the folks that have platinum Jewelry. Its the Rage in Japan right now.

ENgineers and chemists (BASF comes to mind) have significantly reduced the amount of platinum in todays 3-way catalytic converters compared to the very first ones. THats called PROGRESS. When we go to plug in electrics automobiles, we won't be needing the catalysts any more."

My sky is bright blue and shows me where to reach. It is not a flat object going to crush me as it falls out of meaness.

As the lays commercial once said- "eat all you want- we'll make more."

milo "engineers make the world a better place for humans, even depressed fearful writers"

"they have significantly reduced the amount of platinum in todays 3-way catalytic converters that they did inthe very first ones. THats called PROGRESS. When we go to plug in electrics, we won't be needing the catalysts any more."

Hi Brainwave,

Uh, so now you're an "alarmist?" A chicken little "the sky is falling" kinda guy?

(smiling, chuckling)

Geeezzz folks, lighten up!

Brainwave is simply pointing out the supply is beginning to pale relative to demand. That,in turn, means costs rise. Important point and it raises important questions for which I saw many appropriate replys (ie, mine dumps, start mining the not-yet-mined areas, etc).

The best solutions can be very complex as they must be weighed out in terms of the economic, environmental and energy (resource) costs and benefits. Simply saying "no worries, technology alone can fix it, you're just a chicken little" oversimplifies and trivializes an important issue.

That said, what are those "best solutions" and why? I don't know but I look forward to reading informed opinions!

I'm going to play this both ways if you'll excuse.

Stuff isn't running out - we're simply scattering it about. It's kind of like the question ' When was America discovered' - answer : It was never lost.

How will we cope . I don't know , but as far as I'm aware people got by a hundred years ago.

The pre-emptive question 'how will we cope if they run out' supposes that human beings have a better quality of life for having these materials. Do we ? It would be interesting to know opinion in say 100 years time.

Relax all , I'm just playing devils advocate to try and clarify a good question. Supplies of Platinum being 'dangerously low' just sounds a bit weird. No offence meant BrainWave , I understand your meaning , I'm just stumped for good answers at present. Well worth asking the question.

Hey Janus...uhh...Kris, I think that Lord Kelvin was right,. Have you listened to commercial radio lately

Nice post-

milo

Hey milo , I hadn't spotted the ironic truth of Kelvins quote !

No shortage of irony...

Ha.

milo"lovin the Kelvin Quotes"

You're killing me with laughter milo ! - irony on a rare metal thread. You got me joking without even knowing I was doing it .

ROFLMAO How low can you zinc ?

Sulfar I got low enough to Barium. your Lead.

milo