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Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Rebar?

02/15/2013 6:44 PM

Hi, I am located in north central Missouri and am preparing to pour a 30'x40' concrete slab 5'' thick for a work shop. I am considering using galvanized welded wire cattle panels rather than 1/2'' rebar or woven wire mesh but have heard talk that the galvanizing on the cattle panel's doesn't bond well to the concrete. Does anyone know if this is a real concern or not? Thanks for any help, Mark

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#1

Re: galvanized cattle panel in concrete slab vs 1/2'' rebar?

02/15/2013 8:19 PM

I'm not in the industry, but having built my own improvements, and understanding the uniform building code, and now the international building codes, the MOST important thing is pouring concrete on non expansive fill. NO CLAY, or bury it real deep under good compacted sand and gravel.

Per the local code, detached building require a mono-pour footing around the perimeter of the building 10"x10" with rebar.

However the one thing I did not think about was burrowing critters. That is where a thin poured footing deep enough to keep them from undermining the slab. I'm just one state north of you. Ground hogs, chipmunks, gophers can undermine the slab and lead to differential settling. And your wire mesh may help, but not if there is excessive differential settling because of non compacted soil (and those critters). I'm on sandy soil glacial till, and there are no cracks in a 30x32 slab after 25 years. But I'm always on guard for those critters.

The 1984 UBC had a section on non expansive soils and slab construction of a home on this without a frost footing. This now has been removed from all newer versions. What made my construction an issue with the building authorities was it's a 2 story garage.

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#2

Re: Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Rebar?

02/16/2013 10:54 PM

http://www.galvanizeit.org/galvanized-steel-in-use/

THIS LINK TELLS ALL

You will be better off using galvanized welded wire cattle panels. What gauge wires would carry the Static+dynamic loads is another check you need.

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#3

Re: Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Rebar?

02/17/2013 12:19 AM

The galvanized wire do not bond properly with concrete it is true.

Do not worry about corrosion If concrete is properly compacted with vibrator and with sufficient cover (20 mm to 40 mm) It is very less likely to corrode.

Compaction at optimum moisture content is very important for the soil below the slab.

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#4

Re: Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Rebar?

02/17/2013 2:21 AM

As mentioned in previous note (depending )on what is being supported by the Slab / Concrete would give rise to need of steel (placement) use.

For example;if walls /coloms or any serious weight is to be placed on perimeter(for walls) or spots(colom areas)(roof support),then at those ares / spots, re-bar of some size,(weight dependent)would become recommended.Also what is shop use,ie driving heavy equipment or placment of heavy machinery would also give weight consideration for re-bar usage.

More info required for comprehensive reply. D.Kirk Raper / kirk_1314@yahoo.com

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#5

Re: Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Re bar?

02/17/2013 5:59 AM

All of those little X's you see on rebar are there for a reason:To prevent slippage and improve bonding.Galvanized rebar is available and advisable instead of cattle gates.

The rebar must also be placed at the proper distance from bottom of slab,a brick,layed flat, under the rebar is about right for a 6 inch slab. and the ends should have a loop folded into them and imbedded in slab to prevent creep or slip.

Why 5 inch concrete?What is 20% if you have cracks everywhere?Go with 6 inch thick,fiber reinforced concrete and no worries if you park a tractor in there.Buy the 5000 psi mix, only a few buck more per yard.Save your money until you can do it right,so you don't have to do it over again.

Specify a medium slump concrete,(4 inch slump,max.) and do not add water to mix at site.Hard to work with, I know, but the dryer the initial mix, the better and stronger

Do it right, do it once.

Use a vapor barrier over well tamped foundation,and keep concrete wet for at least 7 days after finishing..longer wet period the better.It will build strength every day it is wet. Cover with plastic and put a hose under it and wet it daily.Sounds a little contradictory,but it is not.Concrete needs the water while curing, not when mixing.

Good luck

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#6

Re: Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Rebar?

02/17/2013 10:06 AM

Galvanized steel can bond to concrete if it is properly treated after galvanizing. See ASTM A767 - Galvanizing Steel Bars for Concrete Reinforcement

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#7

Re: Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Rebar?

02/17/2013 12:35 PM

First off, what are you going to park on this concrete slab? If it's a tractor or a truck you'd be better served with using ASTM A615 Grade 60 Deformed Steel Reinforcement bars instead of cattle panels. You need to get complete concrete surrounding the steel for interaction between the steel and the concrete for strength sake. Deformed rebar is already galvanized to some extent, so it's a non-issue.

Minimum steel, for Shrinkage and Temperature crack control, would require #4 bars @ 18" o.c. each way. For heavier wheel loads, if any, the rebar requirement can go up significantly, depending on the magnitude of the wheel loadings. Make sure that rebar is held off the gravel subbase at least 3-inches.

Use a concrete mix of at least 4,000 psi Compressive strength with a 3" maximum slump and maximum Water-to-Cement Ratio of 0.40. DO NOT ADD WATER TO THE READY MIX CONCRETE FOR SAKE OF WORKABILITY, as it will weaken the concrete.

Make sure you have adequate thoroughly compacted gravel subbase. If you have clay insitu soil subbase material you will need to undercut that material.

Make sure you provide Concrete Control Joints at least 8-to-10 feet on center each way. These can be either raked joints of saw-cut joints. Make sure their depths are at least 1/4 of the total slab depth. These are needed to help control slab cracking during the curing process.

Make sure you provide adequate curing techniques to prevent or minimize shrinkage cracking.

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#8

Re: Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Rebar?

02/19/2013 6:43 PM

Thanks for all the input. I will be using 1/2'' rebar on 16''centers instead of the cattle panels and the rebar will be space off the base with a brick . The reason for the slab only being 5'' thick is this shop is only going to be use to repair small engines such as lawn mowers and 4-wheelers we do not own or handle any large equipment.

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Rebar?

02/25/2013 11:46 AM

If your mind is made up -- Go ahead

But if you want to know an easier way out :

2" Thick High Strength Concrete over crushed Rock Roller Compacted .

Concrete mix shall be Water:Cement ratio=0.3

Using SuperPlasticizer

And between Compacted Crushed Rock and this 2" thick concrete--lay a Galvanized Cattle Panel. Cure Well !

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#9

Re: Galvanized Cattle Panel in Concrete Slab vs 1/2'' Rebar?

02/25/2013 10:21 AM

If you are pouring a slab for a floor, forget any kind of metal mesh. Order fibermesh concrete. Cost will be about the same as mesh without the bother. You will have a true monolithic slab. Follow all the proper procedures for prep and finishing. And insulate the slab from the ground.

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