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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/18/2013 8:52 AM

Dear all, I would like to utilize the utility water pressure, approx-4bar, Convert it to heart energy, for bathroom water. My i dear is to pass the water under pressure through some free moving multistage plastic vanes, creating some turbulence and friction inside an insulated container, i would like to raise the water tempreature from 15-20 degrees to 50- 65 degress... any assistance or additional suggestion on my design will be appreciated.

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#1

Re: Pressure to heat conversion for bathroom water heating

03/18/2013 9:02 AM

Start here.

One would need a colossal amount of mains water to do any significant heating and a storage vessel the insulation of which far out-performs anything available today. The economic analysis of such a proposal would easily indicate that conventional heating methods are preferable.

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#2

Re: Pressure to heat conversion for bathroom water heating

03/18/2013 9:26 AM

From the extraction site to your home, the water undergoes much more friction than you can probably apply to it at your bathroom, and still chills the heck out of your bare back.

The ammount of energy attainable by such a very little flow, as you will have passing thru your insulated container, is simply not enough to make a sensible difference in the water temperature, not even a single Celsius degree.

Don't get dazzled by the pressure, it is the flow wich can be converted to mechanical energy, and then to whatever you want, but of course you need to have pressure in order to start a flow.

Abort any purchase of stuff, you'll pitch your money to the trashcan. Use your cash to do some research, buy a book or two, pay your I.S.P. for spending many hours surffing the web in search of trusty information.

Stablish your priorities: "is it learning, or simply hot water what I'm interested on ?" because you could just buy a new heater ( I'm going to do that myself, and soon !).

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#3

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/18/2013 12:12 PM

Solar hot water is the most cost effective way of getting 'free' heat.
Del

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/18/2013 3:13 PM

Agreed, the complexity and payback period is ridiculously low compared to other 'green' standalone alternatives for heating water.

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#4

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/18/2013 1:00 PM

Here is a rough estimate of what you will need for water flow to make it work.

Starting at 20 C and raising the temp to 50 C at a 10 L/M flow (Standard shower flow rate) you would need around 29 killowatts of continuous power.

To get 29 KW of power from a 4 bar water source you would need a continuous flow rate of around 4000 L/M at 4 bar factoring in minimal losses.

In order to get that rate of flow with minimal losses in plumbing you would need to connect to the nearest 4 or 5 fire hydrants or have a 120 mm water main installed in your house.

Basically to take one shower you would need to move the volume of a typical motel swimming pool.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/18/2013 8:06 PM

You just need a way to get that many people into the shower....Free beer ???

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#8
In reply to #4

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/19/2013 6:16 AM

...which boils down to hydraulic power being less effective than other forms of transmission.

GA, BTW.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/19/2013 6:28 AM

... boils down...(tee hee)

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/19/2013 6:39 AM
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#13
In reply to #4

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

04/04/2013 10:16 AM

Basically to take one shower you would need to move the volume of a typical motel swimming pool.


... and pay the water usage and sewage disposal charges, incur the wrath of your neighbors for lowering the local water pressure, pay for the installation of waste water lines large enough to handle the flow, etc. If they can put a man on the moon...


But hey, amortize the capital cost and refine the system a little, and you could get your cost per shower down to maybe less that $100.


GA, by the way.

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#7

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/19/2013 2:43 AM

If your interest is sincere and your goal is to produce hot water for bathing i have a solution. It's not available for free however. I will sell you a complete working system scaled to your requested volume of production/storage. This does not use "friction" or any other commonly understood method. No electricity in any significant amount is needed, nor is gas used. Solar is an excellent augmentation, but is not essential. A complete system to deliver hot water for the average bathroom would cost around $3k But, you would only use about 20 cents a day in electricity! If you can get 2AHD of PV where you are, the the cost would be zero! (The PV system will add around $300 to purchase price.) Contact me by direct here if interested!

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#12
In reply to #7

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/19/2013 1:33 PM

sounds like a ~10KW tank-less, on-demand, electric water heater... but I may be wrong

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#11

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

03/19/2013 10:51 AM

In nature nothing is free and although the water arrives under pressure the gain in heat would be minimal- the only way to use friction would be to so significantly increase pressure that the cost would offset any heat gain- use solar panels or a heat pump if your really want to play genius

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#14

Re: Pressure to Heat Conversion for Bathroom Water Heating

04/04/2013 11:03 AM

The fundamental physics problem with your idea is that pressure does not convert into heat. Pressure and flow, taken together, can do work, and therefore can convert to heat. At 4 Bar pressure, you would need to use an astronomically high amount of flow to heat a very small amount of water. The power available from ordinary shower flow is on the order of a few hundredths of a watt, and you need about 15 kilowatts to heat water to feed one shower head. (http://www.ecosmartus.com/products/electric-tankless/eco-8-eco-11.aspx )

I tend to think in English units, and have (automatically) memorized some formulas that keep showing up in my work. 15kW is about 20 HP. Hydraulic HP is (in English units) PSI x GPM / 1714. So at 60 psi, you'd need about 250 GPM to produce the required heat, if your heater were 100% efficient in transferring that heat to the shower water. 250 GPM is the flow through about 125 shower heads.

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