Previous in Forum: Booster Pump's Size   Next in Forum: Solution for Brazing Electrodes of Spot Welding Gun
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 22

VFD Pumps & Fans

04/03/2013 12:10 PM

I just wanted to ask you about harmonics and harmonic filters. Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) on the 480V Service which serves power to P-21 is about 2.12%. This calculated value is below the specification and IEEE requirement of 5% Maximum THD.

By checking the loads connected to this Service, and based on engineering judgment, relaxing the filter for new 30hp will cause the THD increase slightly, but it will remain below 5%.

Based on this review it would appear to be acceptable to eliminate the harmonic filter for P-21.

Do you Guys at CR4 agree? or what type filter is needed?

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32175
Good Answers: 839
#1

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/03/2013 2:07 PM

Removing parts of the equipment will invalidate any remaining manufacturer's guarantee on the equipment, exposing the operation should an unexpected failure occur in service. Best not to.

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
#6
In reply to #1

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/04/2013 2:30 PM

Thanks so much for your input.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8777
Good Answers: 376
#2

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/03/2013 2:53 PM

I wouldn't recommend it.

Leaving off or changing VFD manufacturer-recommended filters is just asking for trouble, especially as harmonics (a very complex subject in itself) can interact with other electronic and capacitive equipment on site causing component degradation and failure.

Be vary wary of simplified or idealised harmonic calculations as harmonic distortion from other electronic equipment (including some types of lighting) can interact with each other creating a far worse harmonic mess than calculated.

Saving money on leaving out the recommended filter will likely end up costing you more money, downtime and grief in the long run. Take it from someone who used to sell and service VFDs as well as harmonic test compact fluorescent lighting - don't skimp on the filters or you will be sorry.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Anonymous Poster #1
#7
In reply to #2

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/04/2013 2:31 PM

Thanks so much fur the input.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 577
Good Answers: 50
#3

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/03/2013 10:58 PM

How long is the wire from the VFD to the motor? Your just going to have a lot less installation issues if the VFD is right at the motor. You will have a much improved noise generation problem the long connection wires cause. Also ensure the power connection to the VFD is not marginally sized. Especially if the power source is a long distance. It may be on the correct wire size, but how much IR drop is there? This is big contributor to the VFD placing motor switching noise currents onto the power system, which is communicated everywhere on that power system. Is the motor load running right at the maximum of the VFD output, as well the ampacity of the power wiring to the VFD?

__________________
ignator -
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
#8
In reply to #3

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/04/2013 2:32 PM

Thanks so much for the input.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Associate

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 39
#4

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/04/2013 4:38 AM

I find your question very vague.

Are you planning on installing a new 30hp vfd/motor/pump ('relaxing the filter for new 30hp will cause the THD increase slightly') onto an existing distribution system, that has similar equipment already feed from it? And by comparing/measuring the THD from the current equipment ('Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) on the 480V Service which serves power to P-21 is about 2.12%. This calculated value is below the specification and IEEE requirement of 5% Maximum THD.'), you've come to the assumption that by adding the new equipment, you'll not double you're existing THD of 2.12% and, effectively not exceed the 5% limit. So you can then reduce the filtering requirements for the new equipment.

Is this a cost saving exercise? How much will you save in real terms, by reducing the filtering? Is it really worth it? Do you plan to add any more equipment to this distribution system in the future? Will you then have to go back and upgrade the filtering anyway?

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
#9
In reply to #4

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/04/2013 2:34 PM

Thanks for your input.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eastern Arizona mountains on Route 666 about a mile from God's country
Posts: 1676
Good Answers: 122
#5

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/04/2013 11:11 AM

The harmonic filters are not just for the device they are attached to or part of.

These filters also affect the quality of the power source the VFD is attached to.

The filters improve you power factor and save money so decreasing the filtering will cost you in performance and budget expedditures.

I would not even consider it as viable.

__________________
They said; "Brain size?" I heard; "Train size?" so I said: "I'll take a small one, thank you."
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 22
#10
In reply to #5

Re: VFD Pumps & Fans

04/04/2013 2:35 PM

Thanks so much for your input.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Register to Reply 10 comments

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); b weaver (4); Dodgy Solenoid (1); ignator (1); jack of all trades (1); PWSlack (1); SHOCKHISCAN (1)

Previous in Forum: Booster Pump's Size   Next in Forum: Solution for Brazing Electrodes of Spot Welding Gun

Advertisement