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Associate

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Dubai
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HVAC Question

04/28/2013 11:58 PM

Hi guys ,iam working the final handover of villas to their owners.One five bedroom villa has two package units,one ,200 000btuh in the ground floor,one,70 000 btuh in the first floor.The problem is in the first floor,the ductwork was done nicely ,with VAVs that are being controlled by indevidual thermostat.There is no main thermostat or any other control device other than the VAVs.Now i want to know ,can this system work like this.Since each room will be with its own cooling demands according to load.Dont we need a central thermostat that will help our machine to rest,now we are having long runs non stop,refrigerant is ok.Its also icing from the evaporator to the compressor.The supplier had recommended thermostat but prject engineers and other top managers insisted the VAVs can do.what is your suggestion.

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Guru

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#1

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 12:03 AM

No problem.....the system is probably designed to supply fresh air 24/7....

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 1:05 AM

No ,its supposed to cool down the room temperature and maintain the temperature.

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Guru

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#2

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 12:07 AM

Find another job. This project is doomed.

If the compressor runs all the time and the evaporator is icing, you're toast.

I hear they're hiring in the fracking (gas) fields in North Dakota.

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#3

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 12:47 AM

More detail is needed in the description. Where would you locate the "central" thermostat? What other controls are there that can start, stop, and unload each package unit?

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 1:21 AM

The only control here is the VAVs.As i mentioned ealier there is no thermostat ,no antifreeze sansor.The ideal location for thermostat is the central sitting area in the first floor.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 1:29 AM

That is not believable, unless the system design is plumb crazy to start with.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 2:23 AM

This is the truth of the matter,i was brought to this project fo final handover ,the engineers who did this are nolonger here ,they already resined,only one manager is still here ,but as you know ,some managers are not techinically sound .He is telling me to do my best without the required controls.

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 2:32 AM

I'm sorry to hear that you have been stuck with a bad situation. I don't know the overall design of this system, but I don't see where another thermostat would help much. (But it depends on exactly what the suggested thermostat would control, and how.)

Most package units have pressure controls to govern start/stop/unloading of the compressor(s) and condenser fan(s). Is anything like that present in your packages?

You mention VAVs in the first floor. What is on the ground floor? Are the two packages separate from each other?

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 5:24 AM

There is no any other controll device on these units other than these VAVs.In ground floo its a different system ,no VAVs its direct supply and return controlled by a central thermostat.

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Guru
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#11
In reply to #10

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 5:35 AM

Has the situation been discussed with the HVAC equipment supplier yet, and if not, why not?

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#9
In reply to #7

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 3:25 AM

Explain to the manager that the HVAC specialists are the correct people to de-bug this installation, not someone who has been brought in at the last minute just to finish the job, and that if the job really needs to be finished and working correctly, the HVAC people will need to be there to do it. If the controls are really 'required', then it doesn't make sense to do one's best in their absence as it won't be good enough, as evidenced already.

So make the call, and get them in.

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#12

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 5:38 AM

How about the unit's control panel itself, does it have some adjustable controls that would help?

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: hvac

04/29/2013 9:01 AM

The VAVs and a programmed delay timer for the compressor only.

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Guru
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#14
In reply to #13

Re: hvac

04/30/2013 3:10 AM

What else has the forum not been told about this installation?

Why should the forum do the HVAC specialists' job for them?

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#15

Re: HVAC Question

04/30/2013 9:57 AM

This will work if FCU for each zone / room is available .

http://www.designbuilder.co.uk/programhelp/_vav.htm

If icing is observed - as you have said about anti freezing or some form of heating effect needs inclusion as an amendment or modification . Through client consultant or in Final handing over as Pending remark - you need to raise this aspect . If possible , let your authorities put forward this recent test run failure to the client so as to get sufficient time frame to overcome this technical factor .

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#16

Re: HVAC Question

05/01/2013 1:46 AM

VAV is supposed to control fan speed . Sensing circuitry is to be checked whether it really happens . If satisfactory , set point is to be adjusted to overcome icing .

If optimum performance in room / zone is not achievable - needs an amendment , please .

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