Solar Silent Assisted Power Generation - Is It Working? Vote Now.

A drawing please!

I think you are adding a mechanical system to something that works without it just fine, silent and maybe efficient.

Adding another mechanical component means more failures, its not silent (since it will rotate and vibrate and ventilate . . ) the only thign I dont know if it was maybe more efficient. But since you tie into the grid you might get uneven loading and the system balance might not be given.

I give this a 5 out of 10 points (becasue you are thinking outside the box)

BTW batterie and solar still has a bad taste to me. How do you charge the batterie?

Jesous, a drawing mon?

The system is NOT grid tied. The generator is the grid when it runs @ the right frequency. The grid tie inverter needs this to start up and feeds the generator AND the load(s). The battery is charged out of the power that has been generated by the generator and ditto inverter.

Is this a way of producing 3 kW + say 6 kW from the inverter and solar? This is of course a day job. The night goes on with less power --- if you have installed enough batteries. ( ssttt Panels are sleeping)

I have been thinking about it because grid tie inverters are a lot cheaper to use.

For electric motor there are many options:

a 3 kW type (e.g forklift - dump or -too- expensive, small car motor)

And a well balanced flywheel keeps it even more stable.

or 2 pcs 1.5 kW from tread mills ($45 - 100)

F/V converter and PWM switch with IGBT

a coupling to connect motor shaft with generator shaft.

10 kW generator head = $350.00

Fronius inverter IG PLUS 5.0.1 = $2.170

............

When can I order? D

And the drawing?

A sketch, performed with manocat. (just a crazy block)

little dark, but after nine I cannot use my flash

Pfft - I forgot the charger for the batteries. Sorry

• Solar and/or wind charges batteries.
• Batteries feed inverter.
• Inverter feeds AC load.

That's it. Forget about the motor/generator as all they do is act as a convector heater.

Sounds like typical misguided overunity drivel to me.

In the end no it won't put out more power than it consumes and if no power is being drawn off of it the overall system efficiency when running is 0%

Hi Tcmtech,

I guess you need to give it a second look.

It will not produce more power than you need, except to load and float the batteries.

The power goes nowhere except to the load e.g. your household, and to create your battery storage.

Most problems I have is with the upstart of the generator. The test cycle of the Fronius takes about 5 mins. and all these the generator has to run nicely between

59.5 and 60.3 Hz. Otherwise the start (test) period begins again.

Once the Fronius agrees, it keeps the generator perfectly within specs and the 3 kW

DC motor - WITH THE HELP OF THE INVERTED DELIVERS up to 8 kW.

The power is available from the solar panels. The generator is the start - to superficially create " a grid" to be accepted by the inverter.

The generator seems to handle the backfeed into the coils very well till now.

I am not following the concept of using such a mess of mix and matched electrical and mechanical components to do what a properly sized sine wave inverter could do and for far better efficiency while costing less.

As far as being silent I seriously doubt that. I know full well how much noise a 10 KW 3600 RPM generator head makes same with 3 KW DC motors.

I did some online searching and a new 15 Kw sine wave inverter can be had for less than $3000 and a 20+ Kw generator head can be had for around $1000 but the DC motors to drive it will run you $2000 - $4000.

Now once the cost of a solar panel array and battery bank that can power this level of output is factored in I really don't see the point of any of this especially when the going rate for an honest rated solar panel array and battery bank system that could support this sort of load would be pushing $30,000+.

As I said before I just don't follow the concept of a overly complicated and inefficient way of doing what should be a basic straight forward power conversion process.

ANd who are Zeoff and Lora? Where do they fit into all of this to make them worth mentioning?

That is somewhere between nonsense and drivel. Exactly where is uncertain.

You be smokin' the ganjah mon...

The idea is to find out if it is working.

What will be the impact of the inverter on the generator, considering the power ratings and sync. with different loads.

None whatsoever.

What exactly is the point of this endeavor anyway? Right from post one there are just so many highly questionable issues with the concept.

First off a PM type alternator by design tends to have poor voltage regulation which GTI units tend to be nearly as fussy about voltage swings as they are about frequency drift.

Next you want to use PWM based speed control to keep the DC motors at a constant speed of which they are powered by the same battery bank and solar panel array as the GTI unit is getting its power from. That alone still makes no sense at all as to why you would want to run 2/3 of the power output off of a poorly regulated mechanical power conversion system and the other 1/3 off of a highly fussy solid state system.

Cost wise it saves nothing over using a dedicated sine wave inverter unit of the proper size.

Efficiency wise far more power is wasted by keeping the motors and generator spinning than any decent power inverter of equal or greater output capacity would use.

Maintenance wise DC motors can't run forever loaded or otherwise without service where as any decent inverter will easily run for a decade or more with little to no maintenance done to it.

From there at one point you suggest using the GTI unit to drive the alternator to spin the DC motors as generators to charge the batteries that the GTI is getting its power from in the first place. HUH?

And we are supposed to vote on what exactly?

Will it work? I vote sort of but not well.

Is it cost effective? I vote no.

Is it practical? I vote no.

Is it efficient enough to compete with any normal power conversion system? I vote no.

Is it going to be easy to set up and maintain? I vote no.

as long as the hamster stays on the wheel chasing the hunk of cheese I'm sure it will power a small city with free electricity.....probably not

Ok I had a second look! Your wording: "it is a grid tie inverter" made me think it is tied to the grid.

Now I think I understand what you are trying to do.

In case the inverter is not tied to the grid it does need a wave form to operate. You want to use the generator as the part that creates that wave or oscillation or what ever it is for you so that the inverter kicks into live to produce AC out of DC.

It is an intersting idea and I was thinking along the same lines - only I am not at all electrical savvy to even come up as an idea as you did.

Are you sure the wave is needed for the inverter? I know it has to synchronize to the net, but what does it do when there is none?

Good luck

As TCMTECH said, you are way better off with a off grid generator.

What is behind this spin is that now, after years of silent piracy on solar, the power company decides to not allow grid tie inverters at all anymore.

You can put it this way: the solar users are no match yet to sue her in court.

The company acts as judge, jury AND executor - say they agreed - (but not with the asking party) to be green (besides the green buck, I see not a lot).

But they systematically replace the honest power meters (back spinning types) with a crooked pirate stealing meter that adds all the production up.You use 1 kWh and produce 2 kWh and the meter displays 3 kWh to pay. Isn't that not profitable?

(at 43 cents/kWh)

Where I come from. they send people who use this to jail.

The meter originally adds up, buts also distracts? The trick was that people turned the meter 180 degrees and it was counting backwards (This is the digital C1S meter)

Someone modified the comparator and this meter was exacty what the power company here needed. Now we have double standards of metering in different places of the nation, depending on who runs the power company.

So many people tied into the grid and see their investment go to pieces.

As you said a grid tie inverter needs a sinus as "pilot" to build its power on that model. No sinus to measure - no grid tie inverter generates anything,

When you take a small battery inverter you can make a sinus as pilot model, but the grid tie inverter generates as much as the sun provides. The pilot awaits a harsh destruction when they happen to mate.

It is just to have a pilot and a generator that can handle the extra power without going up in flames. The saturation of the head 10kW can never occur when the inverter is only 5 or 6 kVA and the motor that spins the generator is only 1,5 0r 3 kW strong. It is there to maintain the run, especially at night or with inclement weather.

Once the solar inverter kicks in, there is a good possibility that that alone keeps the generator --and itself going.

Otherwise there will be plenty grid tie inverters for sale here shortly. The difference between this setup and a off grid inverter is that it runs with a far smaller battery bank. (also a pretty dirty investment for here in paradise?)

As far as noise: the generator head for sale at HF - ball bearings - 1" shaft makes a lot less noise than a pool pump. People run these also, some 24/7.

The power company was part of the governing system here till a Canadian Company took over the generation plant (oil fired steam turbines from 1947) and the lines on 25 year old poles. They missed the LNG opportunity and installed now some diesel generators.

They want to have it paid back again by the consumer. And again, the wealthy can easily go off grid ( what they also want to control) and the poor again will pay.

A grid connection is also mandatory here. (according them)

I am not in a position to fight this all.

But the system can run - without the grid tie inverter - for less than $500.00.

A 1,5 kW DC motor (treadmill) can spin the head and with a flywheel even a 1 ton split AC system can start and run on this and most of the households use only that much in easy mode. It doesn't take that many batteries to run through the night too.

I am from a different world. People there have no credit cards, but savings on the bank. Televisions and shoes get repaired many times. People have 1/3 of your salaries but can save a little money every month. And we take a full bath once a week. (LOL)

Wow, so I get it now....You must outsmart the enemy.....but you're poorly armed....it's a tough nut, but if you have the determination, motivation and energy, there's always a way....

Enter "Microgeneration in The Bahamas" into an internet search engine, and restart from there.

_{<unsubscribes>}

I see now. Personally I would just put the GTI units in the closet for the time being buy the needed batteries and dedicated inverters and be done with it.

Just switch the power off at the main disconnect and run off grid when the solar and battery system has the power available.

Odds are eventually the political system will change again and grid tie will be allowed again at which that point the GTI units come out of the closet and go back online again.

As far as peak power how much does the average home need anyway?

Do you really honestly need 15 - 20 KW peak capacity and if so what for?