Previous in Forum: Duct Tape Festival   Next in Forum: CR4 Tidy Up
Close
Close
Close
21 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 136
Good Answers: 1

Air Compressor

06/18/2013 11:00 AM

I need an idea to make a small air compressor that will be able to fill a scuba tank to 3000 psi. I use the term " scuba " tank "as an example. I wont be breathing the air.The air is for a PELLET rifle.

I seen one company use something like a cam and rod and hooked that to kind of like a hand air pump for a bike. Would a bottle JACK work,by removing the oil,and hooking it up the same way?

Is it the size of the ports in an air compressor that make the difference for high pressure,like an ele aif C. it will pump to 125 psi. These are the Home Depot ones.

John

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#1

Re: Air compressor

06/18/2013 11:18 AM

I'm not sure this is going to end well.

How large (volume) are these tanks that are being filled?

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 136
Good Answers: 1
#3
In reply to #1

Re: Air compressor

06/18/2013 11:33 AM

I think the tanks are about 80 cu inches

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#6
In reply to #3

Re: Air compressor

06/18/2013 11:54 AM

The enthusiastic paintball guys that use HPA (high pressure air) will fill a large diving cylinder, take it to the game area and periodically refill their gun tanks from the large cylinder. Is that not possible for you here?

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#2

Re: Air compressor

06/18/2013 11:23 AM

You'll shoot your eye out!

Sorry, you're on your own here. Too much risk of personal injury for my taste.

Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - TRS-80 - New Member Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - Hazmat - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - Fish On! United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Detroit MI, USA
Posts: 2496
Good Answers: 271
#4

Re: Air compressor

06/18/2013 11:43 AM

I would ask these guys. You won't build your own safely.

__________________
How we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life. --CAPTAIN KIRK, Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Iowa, USA
Posts: 577
Good Answers: 50
#5

Re: Air compressor

06/18/2013 11:50 AM

Can you find any drawings for the girandoni gun and pump that Lewis and Clark used? There were many web pages dedicated to this during the bicentennial. I find it amazing they could produce such a weapon in the late 1700's.

http://www.topairgun.com/girandoni

No, a bottle jack uses o-ring seals which for viscus oil works, but they would leak air.

__________________
ignator -
Register to Reply
Guru
Fans of Old Computers - ZX-81 - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: 18N 65W o
Posts: 1003
Good Answers: 28
#19
In reply to #5

Re: Air compressor

06/20/2013 4:53 PM

They must have been awesome 800 PSI, 20 rounds as fast as you could pull the trigger and silent.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Amarillo, Texas, USA
Posts: 188
Good Answers: 10
#7

Re: Air compressor

06/18/2013 12:21 PM

I think you should make a trip to the local scuba store and talk to the guys that fill the tanks and hear all of the stories of tanks exploding and people getting killed by them. After that if you still want to go forward on this project order a compressor that is used to fill the tanks and get trained on the use of it. Remember safety first, this is surely not worth dying over.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#8

Re: Air compressor

06/18/2013 1:18 PM

These tanks need to be hydrostatically tested and certified periodically, and must be filled by someone trained and certified to do so.....the metal does fatigue over time from the expansion and contraction of high pressure...the tanks must be cooled during filling process...Do not attempt to fill high pressure tanks without the training and certification required.

http://www.leisurepro.com/1/4/scuba-tank-compressor

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
2
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#9

Re: Air compressor

06/18/2013 2:04 PM

Well since I am an active sponsor of the Darwin awards and encourage as many people as possible to enter I have no problems with giving out potentially dangerous advice here.

For starters the high pressures you need can only be achieved with a three stage or four stage pump system. The common shop air ones don't and can't get anywhere close to high enough.

A typical single stage unit is designed around a 10 - 12:1 compression ratio which means that given a standard atmospheric input of 14 PSI they will not pump up to much over 140 - 160 PSI deadheaded however their normal working ratings are usually in the 100 - 130 PSI range.

Now a two stage unit typically has a 6 - 8:1 first stage pumping into a 3 - 4:1 second stage which means that most can make it up to around 300 - 350+ PSI deadheaded although most are only rated to work at a 175 - 200 PSI service capacity.

With the three stage systems they are similar to the two stage units but they start with the 10 - 12:1 first stage followed by a second 8 - 10:1 second stage followed by a third cylinder in series with a 3 - 4:1 ratio which when combined have a deadhead pressure range between 3000 - 5000 PSI.

To make your own 3000 PSI pump you would need to start off with a two stage unit pumping into a high pressure third stage which you could build yourself out of a common hydraulic cylinder and some form of high torque crank shaft based mechanical drive system.

You would just pump the 200 - 300 PSI air into the hydraulic cylinder then use it and its mechanical drive system as the third high pressure generating stage.

Or lastly you could just watch the online auction and buy your own personal three stage pump system and go that route. I scuba dive and I have seen a few small personal sized scuba compressor systems go for around $800 - $1200 whereas the commercial high capacity units are 5 - 10 times that much.

Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User
United States - Member - NE, USA Hobbies - Target Shooting - New Member Engineering Fields - Aerospace Engineering - Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 199
Good Answers: 6
#10
In reply to #9

Re: Air compressor

06/19/2013 7:53 AM

Must be something like this:

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/12/benjamin-marauder-pellet-rifle-review/#axzz2Wf70C4Qs


Now, not only will OP "shoot his eye out", but OP will also blow up! Maybe blow up will shooting out the eye?

Seems like a lot of fun to me!

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England & Ireland
Posts: 1063
Good Answers: 61
#11
In reply to #10

Re: Air compressor

06/19/2013 11:07 AM

I followed your link. I'm surprised the Benjamin Marauder only gives a muzzle velocity of 900 fps. using 2-3,000 psi. In the 1960's, I had a Sheridan Blue Streak 0.20 pneumatic rifle (hand pumped) that gave 770 fps. I can't believe the pressure got anything like 3,000 psi! There's a serious discrepancy here.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: England & Ireland
Posts: 1063
Good Answers: 61
#12

Re: Air Compressor

06/19/2013 11:19 AM

I have a copy of: "Smith's Standard Encyclopedia of Gas, Air and Spring Guns of the World" by W.H.B.Smith. Very interesting and informative - you might be staggered at some of the guns that were made many years ago. If interest, please contact me via CR4.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 43
Good Answers: 2
#13

Re: Air Compressor

06/19/2013 12:30 PM

Back in the '60's, Popular Science (if I recall correctly) published plans to build a 3000psi compressor, utilizing a surplus 3-stage compressor that was originally used by the military for some aircraft-related purpose. Since purity is not an issue, this is a very simple conversion, because you can eliminate the activated charcoal filter that was included. My dad and I built one and it was used to refill my 72c.f. Scuba tank. You may be able to still find the plans for this project. I am neither recommending nor suggesting that you do this - FYI only.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 293
Good Answers: 3
#14

Re: Air Compressor

06/19/2013 2:00 PM

I have seen the after math of a compressed air tank when the air compressor did not shut off at the set point of 100-150 PSI. It was about 1,000 gal. It ripped out of its steel enclosure blew through a 5 layer brick wall leaving a 10-20 ft hole and flew around like a balloon till it ran out of gas. Fortunately, no one was in either room because they would have died. I have a few more where people died.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#15
In reply to #14

Re: Air Compressor

06/19/2013 2:47 PM

Thats why air compressors are supposed to have one or more pressure relief valves that are set well below the rupture pressure of the tank.

To me a tank getting pumped up to the point of explosion means some idiot was stupid enough to defeat remove or adjust the safety relief system to a point where it should have never been.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - DIY Welding - Don't Know What Made The Old Title Attractive... Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - 60 Year Member

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Yellowstone Valley, in Big Sky Country
Posts: 7425
Good Answers: 295
#16
In reply to #15

Re: Air Compressor

06/19/2013 3:05 PM

"... means some idiot was stupid enough to defeat remove or adjust the safety relief system..."

As you are a sponsor of The Darwin Awards, I would have thought that you heartily supported such activities.

__________________
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South of Minot North Dakota
Posts: 8376
Good Answers: 775
#18
In reply to #16

Re: Air Compressor

06/19/2013 10:49 PM

I only sponsor idiots who may kill themselves.

When they kill others with their stupidity that's a whole different issue with me.

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#17

Re: Air Compressor

06/19/2013 4:12 PM

3000lb air is really scary and dangerous. We used 3000lb air in the big Navy Guns I used to maintain as "Recuperators" (CR4 dictionary does not even know this word...), these are the cylinders that drive the gun back out after firing a shot.

The air pressure could remove your head, hand foot if you weren't careful!!

Be very careful and as long as you still have at least one hand and your head, tell us how you get on...

Why do you want to make such a powerful air gun....?

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#20

Re: Air Compressor

06/26/2013 2:20 PM

While following a link from someone else, I came across this pump which may prove interesting for you:-

Hill Pump

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7025
Good Answers: 207
#21

Re: Air Compressor

06/27/2013 5:43 PM

please video your testing, we like disasters around here.

Register to Reply
Register to Reply 21 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

aDIYguy (1); Andy Germany (2); conntaxman (1); dgibson (1); Doorman (3); energyconversion (2); Fredski (1); ignator (1); JCase (1); JPool (1); JWthetech (1); lyn (1); RSquirrel (1); SolarEagle (1); tcmtech (3)

Previous in Forum: Duct Tape Festival   Next in Forum: CR4 Tidy Up

Advertisement