Lithium Absorption Hydrogen Storage Breakthrough?

Hi Stan,

I couldn't access the URL you posted, but found this article which I believe speaks to the technology in question.

Hydrogen Storage Breakthrough Could Lead to Carbon Free Cars

Chris: You are smarter that this average bear. I should have looked for the article myself. Thanks! SS

Hi Chris

Real good thing that you looked for that finer details.

This Hydrogen storage research is very interesting one and I have worked on Lithium compounds. Even if we do not get the storage for duel cell, we will have something to clean up the environment from leaking Hydrogen.

I think this message is a good one even though points at further research.

The article says "This could be a major step towards the breakthrough that the fuel cell industry and the transport sector have waited for."

The term "the breakthrough" is a little misleading, as if there is only one breakthrough required. There are actually many breakthroughs required for the use of hydrogen as a storage medium. The biggest might be the generation of hydrogen in the first place. Per NRDC figures, electricity is currently generated with about 38% efficiency, with most of that being generated in ways that produce CO2. There will be additional losses in generating H2 from H2O (or fossil fuel sources). Fuel cells are now about 60% - 70% efficient, much lower than batteries, further compounding the losses.

I'd hazard a guess that a 1930's era car, powered by a 1930's era diesel would have better overall well-to-wheels efficiency than a 2010-2015 era "hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered" SUV. The 1900 era Porsche electric car, with its four wheel-motors, would best the efficiency of either.

I think that batteries (and supercapacitors) will have improved enough in both energy and power density over the next 10 years to make the "hydrogen economy" a moot point.

Dear Ken

Actually there is no break through yet and it is only an idea which may also fail. Take it if you like and others need not worry of it yet.

While I don't know anything about the lithium, there was recently an announcement from Perdue about a process where hydrogen is made on demand using gallium covered aluminum pellets in water.

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2007a/070515WoodallHydrogen.html

Perhaps this is the "breakthrough"?

Nope. The tremendous problems associated with refilling a solid/granular? slagged mass should be obvious. Solids handling is many times more costly than liquid refuelling--whach has the distinct advantage of not having the spent fuel solid alumina/gallium to handle and reprocess.

I will disagree

Given the problems with generating and safely fueling and storing a vehicle with hydrogen gas, this technology certainly is promising. Also I don't believe that solid handling is more expensive than liquid (under pressure) - especially if it is in granular form. As for the spent fuel, time will tell how much spent fuel is generated through the process.

In this case, hydrogen is generated on demand rather than being stored in the vehicle. As for handling the alumina - we just need to lower the cost of reprocessing it. Left over gallium can be recycled back into the process.

The plus side of developing this technology is so great compared to the status quo.

Dear IC

Let me understand this process of Hydrogen generation and it looks to me that it is worth to use the process, as it involves metal alloy and water. Do you have details to explain the process?

Hello Shyam

Basically what I can deduce is the gallium restircts the amount of aluminum that is exposed to the oxygen in water. As per the link I posted previously:

"Hydrogen is generated spontaneously when water is added to pellets of the alloy, which is made of aluminum and a metal called gallium. The researchers have shown how hydrogen is produced when water is added to a small tank containing the pellets. Hydrogen produced in such a system could be fed directly to an engine, such as those on lawn mowers."When water is added to the pellets, the aluminum in the solid alloy reacts because it has a strong attraction to the oxygen in the water," Woodall said.

This reaction splits the oxygen and hydrogen contained in water, releasing hydrogen in the process.

The gallium is critical to the process because it hinders the formation of a skin normally created on aluminum's surface after oxidation. This skin usually prevents oxygen from reacting with aluminum, acting as a barrier. Preventing the skin's formation allows the reaction to continue until all of the aluminum is used.

For further info please go to :

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/x/2007a/070515WoodallHydrogen.html

My view is that if this technology is successfully developed, it avoids the usual hurdles associated with hydrogen power (transportation and storage)

In my humble and simplistic view I see loading up on these pellets and then driving away with having to "dump" my alumina and gallium at a recycle depot where I can also access new pellets.

How better can things get if it comes to this?

IC: My apologies for #11 below.

It is now obvious that your lecture is intended for the lecture hall where hydrogen generation and subsequent related problems is to be delivered and discussed.

In this class room we are concerned only in ways and means to safely transport hydrogen gas in sufficient quantity to fuel an automobile to travel some 300 miles, more or less. Your contribution to this discussion is more than welcome but lets not confuse the subject any more than it already has been. Hew to the line. Let the chips fall where they may!

The products of combustion, being that we are going to burn the hydrogen in the engine with air will be only water vapor, so no environmental concerns here.

Have a quiet and relaxing weekend and report back to the CR4 University of Colleges of Multiple Disciplines bright eyed and bushy tail Monday morning ready to discuss the topic(s) of the day. SS

Dear IC

Thanks for information. As this is some what away from the original idea of Lithium, we may discuss more about it else where. Thanks.

Dear Shyam

While I don't dispute that the concept is somewhat away from the original idea - namely hydrogen storage, I brought it forward as it is an indication that perhaps we will not need to store hydrogen in the first place should this technology be fully developed.

The original psot asked if there was a storage break through - perhaps what they discovered at Perdue is a break through making hydrogen storage irrelevant?

As engineers we sometimes tend to work with blinders on which is good sometimes but also can limit our ability to see the "whole picture".

Dear IC

The hydrogen generation process will sure be much slower than using stored Hydrogen and you can not replace those tanks in NASA flights and also at many other places. Hydrogen production at faster rate will require a plant in a car so I have some reservations about it. It is so for the all types of indirect storages. Perhaps a supper fast chemical reaction yielding Hydrogen may solve the problem and we can look into that part more seriously. It hardly matter which process is used as long as it is clean and efficient way to do it and it must serve the purpose.

Perhaps road side fill stations can generate hydrogen and load it on demand. I sure we are far away from perpetual machines so this is going to have some bottle neck at some point so let us have clear details such that we can say if this is any better way to do it. Hydrogen tank is only metal and filled hydrogen with least other problems. Here we will have many problems to solve. We haven't reached the end of the technology development so we sure look for break through developments with a lot of curiosity and also with lots of ifs and buts.

Keep talking and keep doing small things and there is breakthrough hidden somewhere like a diamond in a coal mine. We need some very effective way to technology of energy generation and energy storage both.

Hello Shyam

I certainly agree with some of what you have said and given that this recent disclosure from Perdue needs to be fully examined and developed, it still is an attractive alternative to storing liquid hydrogen at stations for cars to fuel up with. The explosive nature of hydrogen and the ease with which it can explode really increases the safety aspect of it from a commercial use.

I do like your concept of storing the gallium coated aluminum granules which can then be used to access hydrogen at a station. However we still have the safety issue with storage of hydrogen in the vehicles unless we can do it in some form that will only release the hydrogen on demand.

Currently the Purdue process seems to be feasible for smaller engines such as lawn mowers etc and a lot more has to be done to bring it up to the point where we can user it to fuel our cars.

There may be some sort of catalyst that is needed to enable a driver to control the rate at which the H2 is produced (ie to accelerate, your pedal sprays this catalyst into the chamber thereby speeding up the rate?).

I am not saying this is the be all to end all. However I find the concept intriguing and perhaps the technology can be used to generate the hydrogen that is then stored in a smaller containment and as it is drawn by the engine, additional H2 is produced to replace it? In other words using the gallium-aluminum technology in conjunction with the lithium-hydrogen storage technology will allow both to be applied to transportation with a sharp increase to safety.

Shyam: IC or I one don't know what hydrogen storage is all about and I don't think it is me that doesn't know. IOW IC is obfuscating.

The OP and reference has all to do with the means to transport hydrogen gas (generated and supplied from some source) in a microscopic latice of lithium and other elements by absorbing the hyrdrogen in sufficient quantity to provide a driving range of approximately 300 miles.

Anyone who can't wrap their brain around that concept should refrain from appearing to be a few gallons short of a full tank.