What is the Relation Between the Mathematics and the Engineering?

If I had to sum the differences between mathematics and the engineering in just two words it would be Theoretical and Practical.

Interesting enough though engineering in itself this also applies to engineers where there are two types of engineers with it being also Theoretical and Practical.

I have work with both types, and the Theoretical is very book smart, and follows everything to the letter, while the practical engineer realizes the nuances requirements in real life projects and can adapt much better.

I think that you should explain what you think the difference is and why the answers already given are "not sufficient" for your understanding.

The relationship between the two is somewhat interdependent.

Maybe he considers them not sufficient because, since the first answer (awfully wrong for me) the thread is biased in favour of math.

The first things that you get to understand as a newborn (or the mankind in its beginnings, for the matter) is thru observation of natural phenomena, later you learn about numbers and how to quantify those phenomena.

You can be a real magician with the numbers, but if you don't get a principle of operation, you'll develop very little in the real world of engineering.

Regards

Mathematics and Engineering are separate disciplines that use each other to achieve their goals. Neither discipline must use the other to achieve all goals. When one discipline uses the tools provided by the other discipline the goal is frequently completed faster.

You put it in a nut shell!

Mathematics is a tool (like a spanner or hammer or ...) for the engineer. the more your maths is good the better that tool can serve you.

Some engineers will use a small but necessary part of this tool, while others will use a much more significant part of it. It all depends on the task and the sofistication of the project.

With out the maths, your engineering work will miss the most important tool available to him (You need to calculate and measure always! can't do without it completely).

Thanks for the nut shell.

We shouldn't sell our craft short. A lot of new mathematics happens today because mathematicians use the tools engineers provide them, too. The first use of a computer to prove a long held theorem to be true was the four color map problem.

About as good an answer as you can give. Just like any other occupation, we engineers need our tools.

Mathematics is basically measurement, and building things requires measurement...when a simple model can't be built, the design must be theoretical in nature, this is impossible without precise measurement...The more complex the machine, the more precise the measurements must be, and so then mathematics becomes critical to an advanced society....advanced mathematics = advanced design capabilities = sophisticated efficient machines and structures....

I agree it is well said.

Agreed! Simple projects can often be done using "relative measurments" such as the use of a "measuring stick". No numbers involved to make a wooden box big enough to hold some books. When we designed, built and installed supercomputers...lots and lots of math!

There are, in general, two fields of Mathematics, Theoretical and Applied. Theoretical is math for its own sake, but it sometimes yields theories that can be used in Applied math. Applied math is existing theories used by engineers to test their creations in the manner appropriate for their branch of engineering.

There will be no engineering design or calculations without math however our ancestors have developed/used windmills,sail ships,reflecting light from mirrors, waterwheels etc without using math.

Read response 2 and combine with response 7. For a good engineering designer - intuition comes first, backed by mathematical verification (with lots of previous practical experience) - he can come up with a good new workable product / concept.

"Diligence is the mother of good fortune." -- Miguel de Cervantes -

Diligence includes -starting with intuitive conceptual design, mathematical verification, measurement, practical experience - put into practice.

Why patent applications are getting rejected for lack of design details?. Concept is more important than design. Why can't they amend patent rules?.

Why would "they" amend patent rules?

Who says patent applications are rejected for lack of design details?

Have you ever read a patent?

It happened in 1980s by UK patent office rejecting "charging battery of an EV by on-board wind turbine"(NB:I don't remember now the exact words they used....). My question is why don't they give patent to a workable idea without design details.

As an engineer, I would expect design details. Anyone can come up with a vague idea, but the individuals who put the time and effort into a detailed and workable design deserve the patent.

Would anyone issue a patent solely on the title? I don't think so.

If the patent evaluators are intelligent,they should evaluate without design details.

NO! Let me apply some hyperbole to make my point. Science Fiction writers do not get patents for their ideas. They get copyrights for their words. They did not invent anything but words.

Now if your patent application provides enough detail to prove that a machine can be made and that you are in some fashion the first to do this then one can get a patent without a fabricated machine.

Don't blame the patent clerks for doing their job and rejecting your work. You look bad in that argument. Besides, we already have far too many specious patents gumming up patent law.

Nobody will blame clerks but evaluation should be done by a team of experts in the relevant field & they should understand whether it will work,if patent is an important matter.

Surely you jest. A team of experts in the relevant field?

Maybe the patent office is smarter than the applicant.

They realized that the idea was impractical and downright dumb.

The losses associated with such a device would never outweigh the benefits.

See the thread "another crackpot idea".

Very interesting point. Lot of patents awarded a few years before - were only for ideas and concepts. So you certainly will find patents for ideas- which never made it to the market. In fact One blog I had posted on CR4 did become a patent - filed by someone- while I tried to conduct experiments and failed. This happened just less than 2 years back. Patent was field in US - by a non US citizen. I have filed a patent- for another idea in India about a year ago. Indian patent authorities give one year time for providing certification, confirmation - before going ahead with awarding patent. I do not know whether such practices are followed in all fields in all countries. The person filing patent can withdraw the patent - if it is not workable or does not provide confirmation / certification. Actually the fees can be much higher at this second stage. Further every year a certain amount must be paid to maintain the patent - which will make it expensive for people who have field patents- but never came up with workable or failed to commercialize the product. This way patent data bank can also reduce its storage space.

? metaphysics & information theory

Lots of very good answers are already posted but, since I have a BS in Math, I will put in my remarks. In one sentence, Mathematics is a toolbox, Engineering wields the tools.

Mathematics is a powerful language for communicating and preserving ideas in Science and Engineering. The major overlap in Engineering and Mathematics is the requirement of Critical Thinking; that is, being able to sort through the noise and identify the signal, to identify what is important, what is the real problem, and what are the steps which will get you from where you are to where you want to be.

Gentlemen,

This forum has been duped into wasting a lot of time on some half-wit who doesn't even have the courtesy to respond to either of the two questions he has posted.

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Yes, I note that in some threads. Be that as it may, we slog ahead.

To me, engineering is the formal study of creating, tangible objects that serve to answer generic questions/needs, like, "How can I cross this river without a boat or walking/swimming across?" A bridge? "Can I create a space to live in that will allow me to avoid temperature extremes and keep me dry when it rains?" A building?

Engineering utilizes characteristics of matter, rooted and/or derived from the science of Physics and how these relate to forces in Nature, such as gravity (mechanical stresses, friction, etc.) These characteristics are quantified by mathematical description and generally result in fixed relationships (ratios, constants, etc.) for practical building.

If one wants to back up to the mental activity which has driven the development of both science and engineering, it becomes more metaphysical.

Dear Mr. Mellah,

Engineering is the WAY OF IMPLEMENTATION where SO MANY PHENOMENA or FACTORS are LINKED WITH AN EQUATION which is the MATHEMATICS.

DHAYANANDHAN.S