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Buck Converters in Series

09/14/2013 5:58 PM

I have an electric bike which is 36v. Fully charged it is 42v I am needing 6v for powering the lights, a voltmeter and a Gopro camera. Can two converters be connected in series so that one can provide 6v for the lights and volt meter and the other one gives 5v for the camera? The buck converters I have are ubecs for rc planes that can take 26v maximum.

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#1

Re: Buck converters in series

09/14/2013 6:12 PM

Why not just use a separate battery?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Buck converters in series

09/14/2013 6:17 PM

I suppose that would be an option. I could use nimh batteries because they can be kept fully charged all the time unlike the lithium polymer batteries powering the motor.

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#3

Re: Buck converters in series

09/14/2013 6:29 PM

No.

The input impedance of a buck converter is highly non-linear and time variant. So putting two in series will not predictably distribute the voltage across each input.

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#4

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/15/2013 8:54 AM

It's a worthwhile effort to use a switching converter to go from your 36-42V bike voltage down to 6V lights, but the further reduction from 6V to 5V is most easily handled with a linear regulator.

You'll need to use a LDO (low-dropout-voltage) type, such as an LT1529. A fixed 5V version in a TO-220 package would be best. You can get these at Digi-Key for $6.78 each. Or use an adjustable one like an LT1764, setting the voltage with two resistors. Linear Technology Corp specializes in these low-dropout-voltage blokes (under 0.4 volts) and makes them in many variants.

NSC (now part of TI) is another big supplier of high-current LDOs. Their LP3856 would also work very well and is a bit cheaper at $4.79. These parts feature an internal MOSFET pass element, which is appealing, with its lower dropout voltage and very low ground-pin current. It also gets by with only a 10uF load capacitor, whereas the LT1529 wants at least 22uF.

Using a linear regulator in this instance will cost you 20% wasted power (Gopro's 1 amp load means P = 1A * (6V - 5V) = 1 watt), instead of the usual 10% or so for an SMPS, which is not so bad. You'll need a small heatsink, like this one or this one from CTS.

If you think you might someday choose 12V lights, then dropping from 12V to 5V would cost you 7 watts lost in a linear regulator, and require a honker heat sink as well, with a small fan, so in that instance you'd certainly want to use a second switching regulator. You can safely go from 6V to 5V with a smps, so if you want to build a highly-flexible system, with voltages set by changing a few resistors, then go with two switchers in series. Or two separately running from your 42V max.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/15/2013 10:46 AM

As usual you're design is absolutely correct and will work for the conditions proposed. However, the OP will have to locate a different switching supply than what he has in hand since the input voltage maximum for these switchers is less than the lowest source voltage. The OP cannot safely just series the inputs of two of these 26V maximum input switching supplies to obtain a 52V maximum input voltage that now exceeds the source supply.

On the other hand I'm certain one very familiar with switching supply design (like you Mr. Hill) could safely put the inputs of two switching supplies in series to make the point that it can be done. Maybe not the specific models the OP has but I'm certain a clever person could do this with some switchers. IMHO this will take much more design and loading analysis than it is worth. Locating a switcher that handles the source voltage range to generate the 6V and then using a LDO linear regulator is exactly the approach I'd take if this task was mine.

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#6

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/15/2013 10:39 PM

Yes, provided the first voltage output gives sufficient headroom for the second converter and has sufficient spare current capacity for the current drawn by the second converter.

However depending on the efficiency of the converters, max input voltage they can handle and total loading it may be better to run them in parallel - you need to look at all the numbers to decide the best configuration.

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#7

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/16/2013 12:07 AM

Do these devices have voltage ranges that overlap? Can they all work on 5 or 5.5V? I would expect the GOpro to work down to a lower voltage to allow for battery drain. (Apologies if you have already stated the lowest voltage in the range)

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#8

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/16/2013 1:27 PM

[+36V]-[U.ext.6V.Switchin'Gizmo=8V.@t=t0]--[U.ext.5V.Switchin'Gizmo=3V.@t=t0]--[Ground]
say your lights eat 120mA@6V=720mW say 6V SwG is 88% efficient e.g. 720/.88=818mW required = I=P/U=818/8=102mA required
say your Cam eat 1200mA@5V=6W say 5V SwG is 93% efficient e.g. 6/.93=6.45W required = I=6.45/3=2.15A required

so if you have a special storage battery to collect milliamps entering from lamp while you don't use it and it's switched off - it'd take several hundred years to load it from gigaohms pass - the worst case scenario - so to boost things up you'd have to bypass some current for Cam and voila ! you became parallel with your devices

thee are chips available that have multiple voltage outputs - perhaps even custom set by user ...

(i understand i do 72h workdays very rear but at some points it becomes a struggle answering the questions like who am i? what i'm stearing at? why dont those numbers just go home and let me have a nap? )

a good night sleep clears your sences - (well 24+20:25 muhahahahaa)

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#15
In reply to #8

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/21/2013 6:41 AM
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#9

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/17/2013 8:59 AM

I am needing 6v for powering the lights, a voltmeter and a Gopro camera.

Current demands?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/17/2013 9:46 AM

The current demand is free engineering without comprehension.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/20/2013 3:53 AM

actually it's a problem and with grids connected in parallel (if you're familiar with the topick ofcourse - 1 never gets there by sealing itself off the by some stupid glishee)

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#14
In reply to #9

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/21/2013 6:41 AM

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#16
In reply to #9

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/21/2013 10:32 AM

it's like a current demand (from where i see it (WTSh cares))

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#11

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/17/2013 6:44 PM

Why not take an output from 3 of the batteries in the pack and regulate them down to your required voltages ? Your loads are small, aside from the lights, are you using incandescent lighting or LED ? If you are using LED, you can series the LED's to use the 36V directly at a good efficiency. If you are running more than one incandescent light, you should series them up as well, you might be able to build an 18 or 36 volt load there even if you have to add more lights ( who doesnt need more light ?).

3 batteries gives you 18 volts, you can use one set of 3 regulated to supply the camera and the other set of 3 regulated to supply the meter. Splitting the pack will lessen the chance of unbalanced discharge, BUT you will have to be aware that you will need to isolate both of these low voltage supplies from the frame, and each other as well.

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#12

Re: Buck Converters in Series

09/18/2013 2:45 AM

Rather than supply everything from the bike battery, its best to have each unit with its own batteries.

Its like NOT putting all your eggs in one basket!!!

Forgetting for a moment the building of a proper unit will cost more that 3 years supply of rechargeable batteries for the units!!!

Plus a failure in something could "kill" everything.....36 volts on the camera for example.....

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