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Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 8:08 AM

The FCC says no, but states are beginning to eliminate them or offer opt out plans.

It doesn't make sense to me, but I'm not armed with a lot of information. I just figured it was either cell phone technology, or transmitted through the wires.

What's the verdict?

It also wouldn't make sense for these people to lie about their symptoms.

http://kfor.com/2013/07/23/customers-says-oge-smart-meters-making-them-sick/

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#1

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 8:36 AM

"I put out a sheet of lead around that meter and nailed it to my house

NO! you install Mu metal, not lead.

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#3
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 8:44 AM

People are confused about what kind of fields they're being exposed to.

The guy that told me about this, swore it was microwaves.

It seems to me that there would be a very simple way to test whatever it is, and settle this. I prefer the smart meter, (I think?), rather than having people show up in the driveway to check the meter. Dog issues.

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#90
In reply to #3

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 2:12 PM

I have been exposed to electrical magnetic fields, radio fields, green fields, brown fields and even ploughed fields, muddy fields, infra red fields and an airfield. I am not confused at all!
I am still OK, I think! What do you think? Any thoughts if you think, you think?
Just a thought!

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#52
In reply to #1

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 6:46 AM

A copper screen is all you need.

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#86
In reply to #52

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 9:08 AM

As long as its grounded.

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#2

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 8:38 AM

I've read about this before. I recall that people who were affected lived in apartments and there were banks of meters close by.

I don't have a clue.

We have one on the side of our house. It's separated from the living quarters by about 25 feet.

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#4

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 8:57 AM

Well they could move the meter away from the house....put it on a pole....

http://www.arrl.org/smart-meters

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#5
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 9:11 AM

That would make a lot more sense than instituting state wide bans...or having some people opted out, and others on the smart meter.

The solution would be a little trickier for apartment complexes, but doable. Maybe house the meters in a separate utility building.

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#6

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 9:17 AM

Wikipedia offers good insight into the 3 common systems. I would suspect the usual nay sayers are the cell phone/microwave cause cancer folks, with a smattering of holdovers from the computer monitor/florescent light emissions crowd. For Amateur Radio operators on the HF bands BPL is the more onerous culprit. Here utilities are permitted to violate FCC regulations, when other technology is available. Sort of like the emissions from some CFL and dimmable LED bulbs. It is up to the "operator" meaning user homeowner to resolve interference issues, rather than the manufacturer.

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#7

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 10:22 AM

They might have it backwards.

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#9
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 11:09 AM

There's really no point in me trying to avoid politics, I guess.

So, if there's nothing about these things that can be affecting people's health, it seems to follow, that state politicians shouldn't be imposing bans on them.

I wonder what they are using for the basis of the bans, besides, "people don't feel good"?

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#10
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 11:28 AM

A while back I read about a number of studies done to attempt to validate EMS and to be honest the numbers for the supposed sufferers didn't work so well. The general consensus showed it to be more psychosomatic than a real EM/RF triggerable condition.

That is to say they could get people to experience their symptoms with zero levels of EM/RF fields present using dummy devices such as fake cell phones or black box devices which contained nothing more than a set of AAA batteries that powered a tiny incandescent bulb that switched on and off via an internal thermal blinker (AKA a linking christmas tree light) that had no RF circuitry in them and the like yet when being exposed to high levels of EM over a broad frequency range from emitters placed in the ceilings and walls without them knowing it they experienced zero symptoms.

Go figure.

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#11
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 11:37 AM

Sound like anybody you know?????????????????

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#12
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 11:50 AM

DOH!!... Every friggin day.

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#13
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 11:53 AM

There's nothing but anecdotal evidence of a problem with these meters. That is different from there being a true problem with these meters affecting people's health. For all we know, one of the meter installers is contagious with a head cold in one location, a stomach flu in another, and the list can go on.

As for politicians, in this case they just wish to respond to the volume of complaints from their constituents. The politicians have the proof that their constituents are upset they do not have proof one way or the other if the new witch to be hunted is real or if the mob mentality just needs to be temporarily placated. A ban is started and a study is formed to determine the actual cause in the mean time.

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#14
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 12:00 PM

Making expensive decisions based on mob mentality, is not the way to go about things. Given the general stupidity of "the mob", anything could happen.

It seems like the more technology we have available to answer these questions, the muddier the answers get.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/07/how-smart-are-smart-meters.html

And yet, doctors have a name for this ailment, and are diagnosing it.

Here's something special...it's been recognized under the ADA, and people are collecting money from it.

http://www.electrosmogprevention.org/smart-meter-resources-links/ada-accommodations-info/recognition-of-the-electromagnetic-sensitivity-as-a-disability-under-the-ada/

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#15
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 12:14 PM
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#20
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 12:48 PM

Just for clarity: http://www.disabled-world.com/disability/accessibility/homes/sensitivities.php states:

Document Detail: The presence of cell phones and towers, computers, portable phones, unshielded wiring and transformers, fluorescent lighting, wireless devices, microwave ovens, scanning and security equipment, electric stoves, and many other electrical appliances can make building inaccessible to people who are electromagnetically sensitive.

What's left?

We're all going to die...............................................................................

Oh, wait. We're all going to die anyway.

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#40
In reply to #20

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 9:11 PM

I hope i don't have a solar wind allergy the magnetic poles are about to flip!

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#49
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 4:53 AM

"Life is a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure."

.

Helen Keller

.

.

That coming from person who had first hand experience living with true formidable disabilities.

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#16
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 12:30 PM

I would venture a guess that you could fabricate 100 symptoms, randomly pick 10 of them, name it, and do a study. I can guarantee you would discover a measurable percentage of people experiencing this syndrome. Back in the 80's an influential woman in West Bay Shore, LI discovered she had breast cancer. Her mission became "blaming the environment" she so muddied the waters with her nonsensical surveys that no one was able to determine if there as a problem or not.

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#18
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 12:44 PM

There's no doubt about it.

But while the FCC has found no, (scientifically proven), causal relationship, it is also a genuine illness under the ADA, which I wasn't aware of until a few minutes ago.

What the heck?

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#17
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 12:42 PM

WOW,

The second website here pretty much says that unless you have no electricity near your home, and apparently use fire to cook your food and light your house, it my not be accessible to people afflicted with electromag-whatever it is.

I think my head is starting to hurt and my nose is bleeding......................

Am I eligible?????????????

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#19
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 12:48 PM

For cryin' out loud!!

It sounds to me, like they are considering retrofitting buildings to make them more accessible to these people.

How are they going to do that?

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#21
In reply to #17

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 1:09 PM

Now I'll get cancer from cooking my meat over an open fire. Is there no end to the madness?

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#23
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 1:19 PM
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#25
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 1:39 PM

Electrosmog??????????

I see a new LynDoor™Industries product coming to the web soon.

The LynDoor™Industries Super Snooper Smogmometer® Delux.

This amazing tool with help you get those government disability checks that only people with actual injuries and disabilites have been getting up to now.

Live in a house, or apartment, or hovel, with electricity? You're practically assured of get a fat check every month from Uncle Sam.

Buy the whole package:

You get all this for only $2,999.99:

1. The meter.

2. The help kit consisting of our lawyer's phone number and payment envelope

3. Our easy to follow instructions, How to File a Discrimination Complaint Against RF Radiation from Smart Meters

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#28
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 2:51 PM

No. I have strong unsubstantiated evidence that you may have been exposed to one of my wifes latest conspiracy, parascience/voodoo theory/craze or whatever it is she has found now to blame her problems on.

I know they make my head hurt to the point I expect a nosebleed or worse.

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#48
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 4:42 AM

Controversial as it may be:

A view point to consider is that some people, (I did say some people here), may suffer adverse symptoms to EMF and various frequencies. We are not all made exactly the same. As you may know the USA has a sonic fence which cause pain to people. I think it runs at 15Hz. (It was tested recently when shown to journalists). We have sonic fences for animals. Sonic fences for humans.

Just as cell phones may cause harm to some people, perhaps not all, there could be a possibility that the complainants are correct. When we test equipment we test to a general standard and not specifics and we test to minimum requirements. (Based on a general consensus of what we think the population accepts). There is every possibility that some people are affected by the smart meters, but not all. Just like global warming, UFOs, aliens, Hangar 51, we have no concrete evidence as of yet. Speculation and theories, but no solid evidence that all people are not affected by EMF or frequencies. Not everyone can divine for water or power cables, but they can and it has no real explanation!

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#50
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 5:50 AM

It seems as though these people would have suffered symptoms throughout their lives, but it didn't start until the smart meters were installed.

So, just like my problem with the gas tank on my boat, causing it to run bad, maybe they are looking only at RF, and missing something else that has changed between the anolog and smart meters. Or maybe it's a combination of things that aren't considered to be significant enough to study.

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#57
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 7:34 AM

I'm not saying or advocating that anything said here is wrong or right. But as you pointed out, perhaps a symptom was present, bearable to endure and misguided advice when what was known then, is not the actual case now. Nose bleed is usually a sign of high blood pressure and it's the bodies simplest way to relieve the high blood pressure, by leaking it out. (So we are told). We accepted this as true.

A change, or a piece of equipment could have pronounced this effect, perhaps by a frequency change or enhancement, an RF signal that was not present before, could now have enhanced the problem, or a harmonic which did not exist until recently is causing a problem.

All I am saying is, we have change so much so quickly, perhaps what we thought we knew, is not in fact what we know at all to be the facts.

We don't know what has really happened with technology, we don't know what people have done, except where the powers that be, let us know, eventually. 100 Years ago we could not fly, no micro wave ovens, no TV, no cell phones, no HAARP, no rockets.

We were all ill advised about skin cancer; the sun, cover up, all over, use factor 200 +. Ten years later we have people suffering from lack of vitamin E and D, from the lack of exposure to sunshine. Salt? My god, the world went daft and people still don't eat salt. It turns out quite rightly, we do in fact need salt in our daily diets and lots of it too. (Lack of salt can be misdiagnosed as epilepsy). But some folks can't take salt and some folks can't take sunshine.

It's just the other side of the coin. And we don't really know much at all. But we do know how to jump on a gravy train and make money while on it.

We are only as clever, or stupid as the information we are provided. And those who have viewed a problem from the other side are deemed crazy and inept! There is a possibiliy some of these folks are correct.

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#58
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 7:43 AM

I think you and Yusef may have stumbled onto something, with the notion that it may be accoustic. Take a look at the links in my previous post.

Maybe this is being caused by the auditory hardwiring in certain people. Given the symptoms, it makes a lot more sense than electrical fields.

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#59
In reply to #58

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 8:16 AM

Not having a smart meter to try out a simple shielding of a copper mesh around the meter and down to a very suitable earth, (ground for USA folks), of 1ohm or less should prove the sickness valid or not. Do not connect to the house earth. (And don't get electrocuted either).

It will also stop the signal being transmitted so it will screw up your billing and they will pop out to investigate the non signal. It wont make a blind bit of difference to the running of your home or how much electricity you consume, unless you have a ripple relay installed and they can switch of items in your home when a demand is reached.

Or simply disconnect it from the mains. Elephants hear low frequencies which people are not supposed to hear, dolphins are the same, as are whales. It does not mean people don't hear or feel the effects of frequencies at higher or lower ranges.

A smart meter has no significant value to a home owner, you supply its power too, it only has value to the utilities Co and saves them a fortune on meter readers. Shame. My heart pumps custard for the utilities.

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#149
In reply to #57

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/13/2013 12:31 AM

'..... Nose bleed is usually a sign of high blood pressure and it's the bodies simplest way to relieve the high blood pressure, by leaking it out. (So we are told). We accepted this as true......'

.

Not all of us accept this as true. Nosebleeds are rarely a reliable sign of high blood pressure. Nosebleeds due tend to be a reliable sign of children picking their nose or a significant decrease in relative humidity.

.

I don't think it is wise to gather healthcare advice at the renaissance fair. Bleeding/ whether via nosebleeds or leeches or other forms of bloodletting is not a good treatment for hypertension, regardless of how easy it may seem.

.

.

'....We were all ill advised about skin cancer; the sun, cover up, all over, use factor 200 +. Ten years later we have people suffering from lack of vitamin E and D, from the lack of exposure to sunshine.....'

.

The body does not manufacture vitamin E, no matter how much sunlight exposure you get.

The body does make vitamin D if what is taken in in the diet is insufficient, but to produce the required amounts even in people with the darkest skin, does not take very much exposure. It is still good advice to limit sun exposure.

.

Rickets is the disease you get if your diet contains insufficient vitamin D and you don't get enough sun to manufacture enough. So if sunscreen and covering up has caused an increase in rickets (though, I haven't seen any indication that it has), it should show up first in children of those parents with enough money to keep them slathered in 45+ baby faces, particularly those devoted to feeding some odd restrictive diet.

.

As far as I know, rickets is still contained to socioeconomic classes far more concerned about putting enough food on the table than putting enough sunscreen on their kids.

.

.

There does seem to be a bias towards blaming new technology for whatever ails people, even to the point of claiming increased incidence, to support causal notions.

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#150
In reply to #149

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/13/2013 3:05 AM

I am not sure if you are having a go here. If so. Good luck.

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#51
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 6:45 AM

A sonic fence uses sound. They are blaming electromagnetic radiation. BUT, you may have hit on something. It is more than possible that the problem with the poor woman with those symptoms is some sort of ultrasonic resonance. So, accidently, you may have hit on her problem. A high frequency sound wave coming off that meter might well provide those symptoms. When I tested an ultrasonic "rat remover" for effectivity way back in the day, we did notice they made a bee line (rat line) out of the garbage room. We still use them. They work, and as far as I can tell, none of us became uncomfortable.

off topic now as I reminis about the old days. Hey, maybe not so off topic, it involves the Search for Radiation that they went through back in 97 at my hanger line.

After working around heavy (and light) radar for twenty years, I occasionally ended up with a melted chocolate bar in my pocket. It was kind of funny watching the powers that be putting dosimeters outside the microwave ovens in the break room. They didn't get that there are different kinds of radiation either. Heard the same phrase..."well you know, people wonder if there is radiation in a microwave, so we need to be sure. I suggested they hang one from the smoke detector. That one, we got a faint result. I suggested leave it in the sunlight by the open window. Got a stronger result. Microwave oven, cell phones, mobile phones...didn't give any of the "radiation" they so feared. No wonder...it ain't the same. As anybody who has ever had an NBCW course in the military knows.

The statement "its possible but unlikely" is a standard phrase. I dunno. Never saw anybody react to low level emf. And I worked in the trade for twenty years on MUCH higher levels of emf.

If I were that woman, I would find a techie to measure sound levels coming off that meter. Seems more likely than

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#55
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 7:17 AM

Very interesting concept, and it would jive with the symptoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/scalar_tech/the_hum/description.htm

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-11/acoustic-weapons-book-excerpt

Smartmeters are read in 15 minute increments, 24 hours a day. The answer might be as simple as scaling back the readings to once a week, when the people aren't home.

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#76
In reply to #51

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 3:21 PM

I may be slightly biased on rodent issues, but you may be a little disingenuous over the chocky thing. No big deal.

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#97
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 3:57 PM

Read about this problem in Australia, in Nexus Feb/March 2013 links to Don Maisch articles. It continues the big, inconvenient question about health risks from mobile/cell phone technology. It has nothing to do with microwave heating effect and all to do with basic digital data frame rates.

Dr George Carlo was one of the first to discover the cellular effects of RF digital transmissions. He was commissioned by a Telecom company to investigate (and obviously disprove) any connection between tumours and Cellphones. Unfortunately for him he found the evidence and became an unwanted person! The 8Hz data frame rate is what cells react to as it mimics organic 'enemies'. Cells start to shut down within 30seconds. Cancers start to form once the cells' metabolism close the ATF pumps (I may be wrong on detail here!).

Victoria, Aus health complaints include vertigo, headaches, palpitations, nausea and lack of sleep. Blind tests have proven a link and the symptoms occur instantly after meters/ sources are introduced. This just shows there is danger from digital RF. We should not be allowing youngsters to spend any length of time with a cellphone near their head. The future incidence of tumours will be frightening if this information is not made public.

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#8

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 10:36 AM

"Not long after, her doctors diagnosed her with Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity Disorder also known as EHS.

Headaches, nose bleeds, muscle cramps, cognitive dysfunction, fatigue, skin irritation and irregular sleep patterns are just some of the symptoms sufferers describe when they are exposed to electromagnetic fields."

GOOD LORD! Smart meter radiation turns you into a woman with PMS!

Of course they should be banned.

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#22
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 1:13 PM
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#24
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 1:35 PM

You could just make the house a giant Faraday cage....

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#152
In reply to #22

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/15/2013 12:01 AM

Careful!

.

It isn't always possible to discern things like PMS from BRF .... (Bitchy Resting Face).

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#26

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 1:47 PM

Is this a biomed/biomech engineering issue, or a medical issue ? Or a socio-political one ?

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#27
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 2:02 PM

Yes.

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#29

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 3:08 PM

<sigh>

Haven't we gone through this already with electricity, cell phones, WiFi and wireless energy transfer?Wait a while and people will stop complaining about unproven perceived health risks and start complaining they need MORE of it!

Same goes for automobiles, planes, fast food etc which DO have measurable effects against our health.

Jack - People like to complain, its in our nature, but interrupt our WiFi, cell phone or internet reception and they will be out in the streets burning effigies.

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#30
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 4:34 PM

Agreed - for most people it is as serious as Y2K.

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#31
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 4:45 PM

Cool Hand Luke comes to mind. I don't know why - it just does. Many other things 'just are'.

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#34
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 5:05 PM

The parking meters, or a "failure to communicate" ? lol

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#35
In reply to #31

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 5:48 PM

I suppose so too.

"Add that lead to that product boy"

.......

"Remove that lead from that product boy, ain't safe"

.....

"What are you doing, add that lead back into that product boy it's needed"

......

"I thought I told you boy to remove that lead. Get to it!"

.....

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#47
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 4:10 AM

You guys are killing me with laughter - the analogies with the film just get better the more I think of it .

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#75
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 2:33 PM

Yes, it is a little known fact that the movie was actually about RoHS lead compliance issues. It is debatable (but somewhat believed) that the author forsaw not only the lead fuel additive issue but the future lead solder issue as well.

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#32

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 4:46 PM

Psychosomatic. The mind is a mystery. You think something will make you sick. You worry about it you get sick.

Now if only we could figure out the politicians mental problem.

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#33
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 5:00 PM

Then you find out people will give you free money for being sick so then you really need to insist that you are sick

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#36
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 5:55 PM

That's the part that's bugging me, and I didn't know about it when I started the thread.

If there's no solid evidence that these things are making people sick, I don't see any reason that they should be considered "disabled" in the eyes of the law, and able to sue people and make demands under the ADA act. Not to mention that states are banning them based on these claims.

If no solid evidence is required, anybody could claim to be disabled, for any reason, and be entitled to disability payments.

One would think that this would pop up all the time, with the workers in the power industry.

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#37
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 6:22 PM

And yet the medical / scientific professions, being scared s--tless of the legal / lobbyist professions, cannot make a firm answer on this type of thing, and so they break their own oath to not do harm - by doing nothing and allowing others to do harm through their inaction. These types of things have resulted in millions being awarded to clumsy people who spill coffee, for example. For every doctor or scientist who says one thing, another can be found who will refute that for a fee. We are litigating ourselves into straight jackets more and more - - -what was the original question? lol.

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#38
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 7:16 PM

I think you just nailed it...and not just with EMFs.

Scientists have either been coerced with money, fame, and promises of unlimited grant money; or, they have been threatened with lawsuits, being blackballed from their research jobs, shunned by the scientific community, etc.

In short: They have been pushed to the point that they fear to make any kind of determination on anything.

It sucks. It seems that the best we will ever get, is that it merits further research...with no end in sight.

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#56
In reply to #36

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 7:26 AM

Only if they pick a disease or condition that the medical profession has no means to diagnose. Evidence is the doctors diagnoses. Doesn't matter if another doctor disagrees there is no way to confirm either of their diagnoses. So the law which is based on doing good gets abused. It sides on the doctor that makes the person disabled.

60 minutes report over the weekend stated that in areas of Kentucky and one of the Virginia's, 14% of the work force is on disability. All do to smart lawyers picking conditions that can't be diagnosed. Using the same hand full of doctors.

This is in most part do to the economy.

This electromatic sensitivity is just one more condition to add to the list. As long as there is one quack doctor out there to say it does.

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#39

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 9:07 PM

I am NOT taking either 'side,' but it seems to me the BIG power company is stepping on the little peoples' RIGHTS...as in, did they first "...ask..." each home owner for permission to place an active RF-transmitter on the owners property and on the home? No, they did not (TEPC did not ask here in Tucson, AZ, either).

Legally, it seems rather *odd* that people are permitted to complain about cell-phone RF-systems in their "vicinity" but aren't permited to complain about RF-systems begining attached to their homes...without consent or permission!

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#41
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 9:25 PM

SRP sold it to us as a money saving device that would be good for us. With it we could regulate our useage to reduce our power bill. Which is true.

They didn't mention that it would do away with the need for meter readers. I'm not sure who paid for it.

I don't know what the emissions are either.

I don't think they need permission to change the meter.

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#43
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 9:47 PM

I believe that legally the electric meter is the utility's property. I believe the landowner must grant them access to their property for maintenance and service. If a property owner wishes to go completely off the grid they have the right to do that.

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#46
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 11:58 PM

They also are used to get the most money for their kwh. My rates are based the upper tier during the day time when the most energy is used. (A/C, any and all industrial applications, ie. welder, air compressor, etc.) Their peak rates start at 9:00 A.M. and end at 6:00 P. M. Surprise???

With the old meters, it simply registered your total usage for the month when the meter was read. Now they document by the specific time of day as well as the amount utilized during that period. And here (Kalifornia) rates are highest when the most amount of electricity is used. (I guess you could escape it to some extent if you wanted to work 2nd or 3rd shift in your business, if you had one, but then again, it would probably be a tax write off~~sooooo.)

We also have water meters that transmit usage in real time. If there is a water conservation (drought alert) you best not be using water in excess for the time periods you are not allowed. Big Brother has arrived. Not only NSA, IRS, but the electric and water companies as well!!

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#64
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 8:52 AM

I think it has saved us about five percent.

I also run my blacksmith shop at night. Not the pounding or the heats, but the finishing wheels. Cooler, and less interruptions. Out of the way of the hammers. So there was a good ten percent shop savings there.

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#42
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 9:43 PM

You are aware that the ones using an actual RF signal only transmit for a few seconds and only when commanded by the main system?

On top of that their power output is under one watt plus they use frequency bands near or in the same range as amature radio and the common cell phone or cordless phone as well.

Smart meter info.

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#44
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 9:59 PM

Legally, it seems rather *odd* that people are permitted to complain about cell-phone RF-systems in their "vicinity" but aren't permited to complain about RF-systems begining attached to their homes

I was under the impression it was because of aesthetic issues first and emissions second (same with power pylons). That and lawyers got involved to make a buck.

each home owner for permission to place an active RF-transmitter on the owners property and on the home?

I don't believe they need to under the law, again my impression was due to the low transmission power levels and transmission operation band the meters were operating on.

Wireless transmitters operating in the high MHz and low GHz range at around 1W are common enough nowdays that it isn't really that big an issue. Bluetooth and WiFi for example operate at around 100mW and are everywhere AND in close proximity to us. That and radio electromagnetic radiation is everywhere at various frequencies and power levels. Even modern toys can contain similar transmitters to those used in the power meters.

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#53
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 7:06 AM

"...aren't permitted to complain..."???? Clearly this is not the case at all. It looks like COMPLAINT is the last unrestricted freedom!

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#54
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 7:08 AM

The last unrestricted freedom: "the right to complain".

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#45

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/08/2013 11:40 PM

We need a new section called AGNATOLOGY. Agnotology (formerly agnatology) is the study of culturally induced ignorance or doubt, particularly the publication of inaccurate or misleading scientific data. The neologism was coined by Robert N. Proctor, a Stanford University professor specializing in the history of science and technology. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnotology

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#60

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 8:21 AM

Well... a Wikipedia search for EHS starts out with "Idiopathic" and I think enough said. Sounds like idiot to me.

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#62
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 8:27 AM

Idiopathic is an adjective used primarily in medicine meaning arising spontaneously or from an obscure or unknown cause. From Greek ἴδιος, idios (one's own) + πάθος, pathos (suffering), it means approximately "a disease of its own kind". It is technically a term from nosology, the classification of disease. For some medical conditions, one or more causes are somewhat understood, but in a certain percentage of people with the condition, the cause may not be readily apparent or characterized. In these cases, the origin of the condition is said to be idiopathic.

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#63
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 8:35 AM

This may also be the reason why lawyers win court cases, 'Idiopathic evidence'. Good one Phys.

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#65
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 9:05 AM

Exactly - they are idiots. (the cause is known - it is in their heads) Wiki uses idiopathic only to be kind.

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#66
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 9:28 AM

Let me add this - have you seen the commercial with the little kids at a table and one does a knock, knock joke using "queen"? Another responds "Clean - it is supposed to be clean." Apply as appropriate.

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#71
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 10:56 AM

The kid blows the joke because it should be pweese, queen my dishes pweese....

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#61

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 8:22 AM

I wonder why not? Perhaps they don't want us to know! (Mwah Ha Ha) Evil laugh!

The fact is this; is all the doings of the medical world and medicines folks, they want us sick to make a fortune, us to be feek and weeble then they will pounce at our moment of total weakness.

Its the devil I say, the devil! He made me do it!

I just had the compunction to do that. (Must have been the devil).

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#67

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 9:52 AM

Back in the 1980's EPRI published a non-public shared report on the affect of RF and Microwave emmisions from overhead high voltage power lines in residential areas.

The report clearly stated there was positive, viable evidence of decreased and/or elevated (direction dependent on exposure frequency) seratonin levels generated in lactating and pregnant women that were exposed at distances of less than 300 feet.

Most suffered decreased seratonin levels with some experiencing increased depression and some becoming extremely agitated and/or angry for no justifiable reason.

The psyche medical field has been successfully treating a myriad of mental illnesses using magnetic fields and variable RF applied in close proximity to the patient's cranial area for thelast few years.

Now we know the cause of PMS, Road Rage, and many other unexplainable behaviors. (It's them *$! cell phones.)

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#68
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 10:03 AM

Oh really, just try and get a cell phone out of a teenage girl's hands. I dare you.

This deserves repeating.

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#70
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 10:18 AM

LOL!

Great post!

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#69

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 10:07 AM

Perhaps it is not the meter that is making these people sick. Maybe it is their electric bill.

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#72

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 11:11 AM

EVERY time I read my BILL, I get Sick

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#73

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 1:13 PM

The placebo effect is well documented and quite real.

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#74
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 1:55 PM

My placebo hurts all the time.

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#77
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 4:16 PM

Did you think to feed it some chocolate?

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#78
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 4:28 PM

Placeboes have mouths ?

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#79
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 4:36 PM

C'mon man! The placebo will find a way. It's chocolate!

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#80
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 4:40 PM

Last time I fed anything chocolate, it married me.

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#81

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 4:45 PM

Well, if it's all BS, I think somebody needs to say something, because by classifying it as a disability under the ADA, and banning the use of smart meters, we're creating an entirely new class of victims that will be looking for a monthly check.

The number of people that are cashing in on "depression" is unbelievable. We're talking permanent disability payments.

That said, I still think that something is going on with those people, and that it's tied to the meters.

I think more in depth testing of the people needs to be done. Brain imaging, MRI, etc., while they are in the presence of a working meter, and both when it is transmitting, and when it isn't.

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#82
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 4:55 PM

One thing psychology teaches you is that the mind is the amazingly complex and cross connected machine capable of doing some amazing things. including deluding oneself into believing just about anything and then manifesting symptoms to go along with it.

I believe I'll have some chocolate.

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#83
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 5:00 PM

That's just fine, but when the delusions are transferred to state government agencies, and they force the removal of meters, and institute bans on them, I'd say we've got a problem.

Edit: Not to mention, that it is now an "official" disability under the ADA, and people can file suit with the DOJ for discrimination, if the meters aren't removed.

If the supposed "victims" are delusional, what does it say about a system that turns their delusions into reality?

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#84
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/09/2013 5:16 PM

It says

WE"RE SCREWED!

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#85

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 7:19 AM

Here's what the conspiracy folks have to say.

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/no-more-privacy-smart-meters-are-surveillance-devices-that-monitor-the-behavior-in-your-home-every-single-minute-of-every-single-day

The example they use with pot busts, doesn't really hold water. Police were using electricity spikes as probable cause, long before smart meters. It was unconstitutional before, and it still is.

I'm not buying the conspiracy...yet, but I'm alway leery of people that come out of nowhere, and tell me how they want to "help" me.

The elimination of armies of meter readers, makes perfect sense. Why not?

The only thing I found in the utility company's literature that sounded bogus, was that they do a reading every 15 minutes, in order to help identify outages, and dispatch repair crews as quickly as possible. I call BS on that one.

As I mentioned in another thread, people in NC are using less electricity, and it's not because of smart meters. As a thank you, we have had two rate increases in just over a year.

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#87
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 10:04 AM

Well us older folks can remember when the television was capable of broadcasting what was going on in your living room directly to Big Brother.

Well that was after it rotted your brain from the EM emmisions.

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#88
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 10:09 AM

and fried you from CRT radiation. and your brain from the programming content. But look we survived against the odds to tell our tales lol.

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#89
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 10:22 AM

When it comes to survival.....

Never underestimate the mammal!

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#91

Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 2:54 PM

Okay, I haven't joined the conspiracy theorists on this topic...

BUT, if I was a conspiracy theorist, and since the symptoms almost perfectly match those that can be induced by infrasound; I would say that if it was indeed, infrasound that was causing this, then the utility companies and the government would have a good reason to allow people to think it was EMFs.

Infrasonic 17 Hz tone experiment[edit]

On 31 May 2003, a group of UK researchers held a mass experiment where they exposed some 700 people to music laced with soft 17 Hz sine waves played at a level described as "near the edge of hearing", produced by an extra-long-stroke subwoofer mounted two-thirds of the way from the end of a seven-meter-long plastic sewer pipe. The experimental concert (entitled Infrasonic) took place in the Purcell Room over the course of two performances, each consisting of four musical pieces. Two of the pieces in each concert had 17 Hz tones played underneath. In the second concert, the pieces that were to carry a 17 Hz undertone were swapped so that test results would not focus on any specific musical piece. The participants were not told which pieces included the low-level 17 Hz near-infrasonic tone. The presence of the tone resulted in a significant number (22%) of respondents reporting anxiety, uneasiness, extreme sorrow, nervous feelings of revulsion or fear, chills down the spine, and feelings of pressure on the chest.[32][33] In presenting the evidence to British Association for the Advancement of Science, Professor Richard Wiseman said, "These results suggest that low frequency sound can cause people to have unusual experiences even though they cannot consciously detect infrasound. Some scientists have suggested that this level of sound may be present at some allegedly haunted sites and so cause people to have odd sensations that they attribute to a ghost-our findings support these ideas."[31]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound

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#92
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 3:12 PM

Now that is far from conspiracy. That's imperical, repeatable, and presumably peer reviewed.

Nice Find.

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#94
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 3:51 PM

As far as I can tell, the conspiracy folks haven't thought of this. I'm sure it would make their heads spin.

Induced mood/behavior control with, (undetectable), smart meter infrasound, which can be tweaked to induce hallucinations.

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#96
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 3:57 PM

Seems like no two people react the same way, from what I read there. Not much good for crowd control if so.

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#99
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 4:08 PM

I just found this. I wasn't aware that so much research on infrasound had been done.

It seems that certain frequencies can produce repeatable results, that affect more than a few.

Is it time to worry?

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#100
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Re: Are Smart Meters Making People Sick?

10/10/2013 4:19 PM

I'm sorry, but I find much wrong with the author's use of the word "pitch".

If it's "infrasound" the "pitch" is by definition below 20 Hz. It's the same as frequency, but the author would have us believe otherwise.

I know, nit picking.

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