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Guru
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Hail breakup by sound waves

06/06/2007 6:21 AM

I am interested in apparatus to break up or avoid hail by directing sound or energy waves to threatening clouds.

Can anyone assist with information about what is available and viable, including the possible use of the heat to sound converter as seen on CR4 recently.

The product will be used in a hail prone area to protect apple and other fruit trees from hail damage instead of the nets currently used.

According to my information the capital advantage is about 6:1

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#1

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/06/2007 9:33 AM

Keep in mind how hail is formed. A rain drop is pulled into the upper atmosphere by updrafts inside the storm, when the dropplet reaches a high enough hight, it's so cold it freezes, and then it is pushed to the outside of the center of the storm where it falls, when it reaches the bottom of the storm the updraft sucks the frozen pellet back up. During this process, everytime the water dropplet goes around the cycle, it gets bigger and bigger until it's too heavy for the updraft to carry it, then it drops to the ground as hail.

Understanding this, where in this process to do want to blast the ice with sound or energy waves?

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#2

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/06/2007 11:08 AM

Not a good Idea. The amount of energy required to break up a ball of ice while suspended in air would permanently deafen everyone and everything. It would probably take the energy of a nuclear blast to shatter the ice. The frequency would have to be wide range since the Hail will be different sizes and densities. The High frequency and power will probably kill the Honey bees required to pollinate the fruit trees.

The updrafts are like the rip currents in the ocean and will usually occur in generally the same locations due to the location of lakes and mountains.

In problem solving it is better to find the cause of the problem and solve the cause instead of the symptom. In this case it is the updraft. The hail is the symptom or result.

Better to try to inturrupt or disperse the updraft so only rain is produced.

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Guru
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/06/2007 1:54 PM

To correct the problem at the cause a mountain range will have to be flattened. To do that i will need permission to build a few nuc bombs. Even less desirable.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/06/2007 2:01 PM

The problem you face is that sound, heat or any other wave analysed form of energy dissipates by the same formula as radio, by the square of the distance.

So the energy you can direct from a distance would go down by the square of the distance from the projector.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/07/2007 9:50 AM

You said " mountain range will have to be flattened"

True, if you want to do it the hard way, however, there may be a way to disturb the natural flow if air by adding heat or cold sources that create artificial up and down drafts.

If you put a cold source below a natural up draft It may disturb and move the updraft

If you create a Heat source in a different area you could control where the updraft exists.

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/08/2007 6:23 PM

Wouldn't the energy needed to form hail be the same as the energy required to brake it up. If that is the case, were will this enormous power be generated from?

Maybe thats were the perpetual mobiles come to the rescue. Have fun. Ky.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/11/2007 9:27 AM

It is the "loss" of energy that causes ice to form

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#6

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/07/2007 6:35 PM

The automobile manufacturer I work for has done this at one of our vehicle assembly sites. We installed hail cannons to prevent the formation of hail and the subsequent damage to the automobile inventory on site ($5MM-$20MM per occurrence). The issue was enough of a concern that our corporate insurer wanted to raise the deductible specifically for hail damage to $5MM per occurrence. Google 'hail cannon' and you should find manufacturers of the devices. The system consists of a doppler radar that determines when the conditions to form hail are present, and a propane fueled cannon that automatically fires sound waves up into the atmosphere in rapid succession. The soundwaves prevent to formation of hail, not necessarily break it up. Though there has not been an occurence of damaging hail on the site since the installation, there have been sporatic complaints from the neighbors. But the naighbors also have a benefit of not getting hailed on, either. Ironically, we could not put a system at a second site because we were under the approach pattern to the regional airport, and there were concerns about the effect of the sound waves on aircraft flying overhead.

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#8
In reply to #6

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/08/2007 11:23 AM

The manufacturer claims that it is the shock waves, however, The science has never been proven. I find it hard to believe that a shock wave dissipating exponentially upwards could be the reason.

Apparently they work. The question is how.

Is the Sound destroying the crystalline structure, or is the heat disturbing the air currents?

How much heat is produced by these cannons?

Would it work as well with only speakers or other noise producer?

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#7

Re: Hail breakup by sound waves

06/07/2007 6:43 PM

I'll be - not surprisingly - damned.

Sorry for thinking you nuts

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