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Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 8:29 AM

Oops! Boeing cargo jet lands at wrong Wichita airport

Whadda ya mean JABARA airport, isn't this McConnell AFB?

Oh, SH^T !!!

<Update: Engineers say the aircraft is capable of takeoff at the Jabara Airport. They will fly it out around noon today. Jabara runway is only 6,000 feet long & 100 feet wide>

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#1

Re: EXPERIENCED PIOLT AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE EMPLOYMENT

11/21/2013 8:38 AM

I knew that last Starbuck's tasted funny........

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#2

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 10:00 AM

On a similar note......... when I traveled there are times where I have to find out which airport I'm in........ usually after a very restless snooze either on a plane or waiting for my connecting flight.....

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#3

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 12:06 PM

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#4

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 12:32 PM

Sounds familiar, we have an "experienced truck driver : available for immediate employment."

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131119/METRO03/311190090/1409/METRO

Mind you this area of MI still had power after the storms ripped through the area Sunday night cutting power for over 600,000 S.E. Michigan customers.

How you can pull out and drive down the road with your boom extended and tear out 8 utility poles before realizing your doing it, is beyond me.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 12:46 PM

I've seen dump trucks drive away with their dump in the full upright position........ the first corner they take they're laying on their side.

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#6
In reply to #4

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 1:26 PM

I have worked with far too many people who do stuff like that so believe me when I say that for some it would be pretty easy and the worst part is it's not the new guys that do that sort of stuff.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 3:21 PM

"The driver just said he was having a bad day,"

Ya think?????



From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131119/METRO03/311190090#ixzz2lJUmilNL

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#25
In reply to #4

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 2:59 PM

It's called being up for days as the crews try to reattach all the lines.

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#8

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 5:49 PM
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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 6:41 PM

He might get fired, but I bet it was fun, slamming those throttles full bore on takeoff.

Let's see what this b*tch can do!

I think I heard that the pilot already has a new job, and has tripled his pay....as an ACA administrator.

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#10
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Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 7:09 PM

I would have bet the Vette that: "The Dreamlifter successfully and uneventfully took off at 2:16 p.m. Eastern today with a different crew aboard - presumably, one capable of going where they're supposed to."

Boeing's Massive Dreamlifter Lands at the Wrong Airport, Gets Stuck

The guys that landed at the wrong, uncontrolled airport probably won't be flying for a long time.

Uncontrolled means no control tower, and nobody telling the pilots about local conditions including other aircraft in the immediate area of that airport.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 7:30 PM

I was lucky enough to be a passenger in a Cessna the crash landed in Jessup, Ga.

Thick fog, some redneck on a radio in the tower snack bar, that kept telling us that we were on either his right or left.

It was the boss's personal plane. We flew completely blind for about a half hour, he caught a brief glimpse of the runway, and cut the engine.

We dropped like a rock, slammed into the runway, and slid to a stop about 6' from the swamp.

Pretty scary. It bent the landing gear and wheels up against the bottom of the plane, and the boss had to call for a ride back to Charleston.

He was apologizing, and I was thanking him for keeping his cool and getting us on the ground alive.

It went from a clear day, to completely socked in with dense fog, within 20 minutes of leaving the ground. Total soup.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 7:38 PM

That's an uncontrolled airport.

Any landing you can walk away from, is a good one.

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#18
In reply to #12

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 2:42 AM

I think your using the term wrongly (uncontrolled) . An uncontrolled airport is an airport that has no working control tower. It is the pilots responsibility to control his aircraft to avoid other aircraft in the area. Means nothing else. I have been radar vector by Air Traffic Controllers to non-controlled airport under instrument conditions hundreds of times. The procedures is different for IFR landings and approaches vs VFR, but not by much. So do not make much out of the non controlled airport. Does not mean a thing to the aircraft. Take off and landing distances do in fact make a difference thou.

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#22
In reply to #18

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 5:22 AM

That's all I thought he meant. Although a better term would be towerless or untowered.

Wal is right. What the heck were the guys in the AFB tower doing?

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#23
In reply to #18

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 5:44 AM

Yes, uncontrolled.

However, "It is the pilots responsibility to control his aircraft to avoid other aircraft in the area."

That statement would be ture regardless of the existance of an operational control tower, or not.

And, the term "control" tower is somewhat of a misnomer, isn't it? The pilot in command always has the option of disregarding the instructions of the controller, with adequate justification.

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#14
In reply to #10

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 11:49 PM

From what the local news here stated, Boeing arranged for a 2 pilot crew to fly it the 9 miles to the correct airport, with minimal fuel to facilitate takeoff.

How would a pilot EVER live that one down?????

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#13

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/21/2013 11:27 PM

shades of Teneriffe -

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#15

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 1:25 AM

Why didn't the controller at the correct airport alert the plane's crew that their approach heading was off by 900? (NE v SE)

They could tell the pilot where he had landed after the event by looking at their radar....why weren't they looking at their radar and advising the pilot earlier?

Surely the controller must have tweaked that the plane that was supposed to be landing any moment wasn't anywhere in sight. It's not that small to miss.

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#16

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 2:03 AM

What I read earlier is that they say it's not uncommon for Jabara Airport to have "Heavy" jets mistakenly land at Jabara Airport, with about 20 Oh, Sh^ts a year. It might be time for the Feds to do some runway realignments, like maybe 90°. Whats really scary is, if I'm not mistaken, parts of the Dreamliner are manufactured there in Wichita, KS., so the crews of the Dream Lifter should have known the territory and the approach plates should have noted the two different airports, that's unless their IPad's® were minimized and GPS was turned off, let alone the ILS. Unfortunately, it happens more often than what said about landings at the wrong airports. Are Pilots too dependant on automated systems? Most definitely. The funny thing about all this, is the "Rescue Tug" broke down on the way to rescue the Dream Lifter.

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#17
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Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 2:33 AM

"Are Pilots too dependant on automated systems?"

Or not dependant enough - use all systems, go with the majority, unless otherwise indicated.

That would have saved the Air France plane that went down off Africa.

And the Costa Concordia.

And the Chinese High Speed Train.

And the freighter on the reef of NZ.

And ……….

And ……….

Insert 'and' of your choice -

AND the Singapore Airlines plane that crashed taking off in a cyclone in Taipei.

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#29
In reply to #17

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 12:09 AM

"Or not dependant enough - use all systems, go with the majority, unless otherwise indicated." Thats the problem with automated systems, especially in aircraft. Pilots have become so complacent and dependant on the automated systems they've forgotten how to "fly by the seat of their pants."

You referenced an Air France plane going down off the coast of Africa, could you be more specific, flt number or date, I did a lengthy search and I couldn't find it. If you were referring to AF447, that was caused by an automated systems failure that escalated from frozen Pitot tubes and lack of pilot training to deal with a situation like that.

And the Costa Concordia, The Captain was sailing in "charted water's", and it was his choice to "cruise" so close to shore. That's comparable to landing at the wrong airport, and a life sentence is to short for that Captain, at least the Dream Lifter crew didn't"t kill anybody, this time.

And the Chinese High Speed Train, was caused by (automated) faulty signal system and "as well as a series of management failures on the part of railway officials ..."

And the freighter on the reef of NZ, with the lack of information of what type of navigation was being used and what charts? One can only speculate as what the cause of the grounding was, ultimately the Captain is/was responsible.

AND the Singapore Airlines plane that crashed taking off in a cyclone in Taipei, I have to admit there is no automated system could have prevented this, unless it could measure Stupidity of the pilots!! Who in their right mind would take off or try to land in a Cyclone??

And .....

And ....

And ....

The three most common phrases in airline aviation are "Was that for us?" "What'd he say?" and "Oh Sh^t!" Since computers are now involved in flying, a new one has been added: "What's the damn thing doing now?"

Ultimately, the PIC is responsible, automated or not, and a couple of people will be looking into new occupations

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#30
In reply to #29

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 9:53 AM

I take exception to this statement:

"<Costa Concordia>his choice to "cruise" so close to shore. That's comparable to landing at the wrong airport."

The Costa Concordia captain went against all rules and logic in choosing to violate company policy and good sense, all to impress a woman. 32 people died due to his conscious violation of many rules and laws.

The pilot in command of the Dreamlifter just made a stupid mistake.

I can understand how the pilot made his mistake.

I'll never understand why the captain choose to do what he did, and then abandon his passengers, to boot. He should be slowly keel hauled, under a very wide ship.

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#33
In reply to #30

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 11:20 AM

Agree.

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#35
In reply to #30

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 11:54 AM

According to the actual communications between the airbase ATC and the Dreamlifter, which was aired during the newscast of the situation, the airbase control tower questioned the pilot of the Dreamlifter regarding the decision of the pilot as to the airfield he was about to land at. The Dreamlifter pilot pretty much scoffed at the Air Traffic Controller, as if insinuating, "who are you to question my abilities"? Now we know!!! Perhaps a very embarrassing lesson (for the {former???} Dreamlifter pilot) in keeping ones ego in check.

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#37
In reply to #30

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 2:41 PM

I too take exception to this statement:

"The pilot in command of the Dream Lifter just made a stupid mistake."

We all know, it's stupid mistakes that kill people. And to make a stupid mistake in an air craft as advanced as the Dream Lifter isn't acceptable. It's not a pretty sight when an aircraft lands on top of another aircraft. LAX comes to mind and what the out come was. Tho, the pilots were not at fault in this incident, it was a stupid mistake in the control tower's procedures of handling traffic at LAX.

One of the most prominent visual clues for pilots flying at night about the airport they're landing at is the control tower beacon, or lack of, which are color coded to what type of airport or landing pad it is.

The only benefit of doubt I'll give the Dream Lifter crew is, there are 5 airports/ landing strips in the greater Wichita area all with in 9 miles or less of McConnell AFB. Of the 5, 4 have runway headings within 10° of each other. Cessna's runway is about 20° off CL of McConnell, but is situated at the North end of McConnell.

And knowing this, if I was Flying into Wichita, I sure as heck would have my "Approach Plates" out and every piece of Nav. aid up and running. along with looking out the wind screen.

So if you are a pilot and take exception to my statements, and I really hope you do, maybe you wouldn't make that same stupid mistake that can kill you and other innocent people.

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#39
In reply to #37

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 3:09 PM

You are being completely illogical. Not to mention grossly wrong.

The two incidents have nothing in common, at all. Nobody landed on top of anybody in Kansas. The circumstances bear no resemblance to each other. And the aircraft type doesn't matter.

Granted, ATP's should be the very best and should not make these mistakes. But nobody died and they didn't purposly drive a ship aground and kill 32 people.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 4:41 PM

Sorry Lyn, but when you land at an airport, whether controlled or uncontrolled, unannounced, the accident potential is there. And landing at night just adds to the problem.

If there was another aircraft on the runway, the circumstantial out come would have been the same as LAX.

I've been in Commercial Aviation over 20 years now, and had my fair share of other people's mistakes. I had to fly into LAX after that screw up and it was not pretty.

Your right, fortunately nobody died in Kansas. And the aircraft type does matter, that tumored 747 has the state of the art avionics on board including GPS, plus a nice wide windscreen to look out of and see they were landing at an airport other than McConnell. It's not a GA aircraft, that might or might not have lights, battery and com/nav radios, and yes they do still exist.

The Dream Lifter crew was lucky they didn't overrun the runway and plant that thing in a corn field

My feeling about the Costa Concordia Captain, he should be strung up and hung on the yardarm so everybody can see.

I'm not going to get into a peeing contest over someone else's mistake, they screwed up big time, plain and simple. And again, fortunately nobody was killed this time.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 6:34 PM

OK.

I defer to your experience.

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#36
In reply to #29

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 1:26 PM

My point is that none of these people needed to die, nor planes & trains crash or ships sink. Better planning would have even prevented Fukushima.

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#19

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 2:56 AM

Flying critter's eye view....

The runways are almost parallel and colinear not NE and SE as quoted in another link posted earlier.

Hmmm. No wonder it happens more frequently than the news reports.

I figure they have the valet service worked out pretty well by now.

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#20
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Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 3:10 AM

"I figure they have the valet service worked out pretty well by now."

It is much, much more serious than that.

Had there been another aircraft on that runway, 'cleared to land' could have taken out 1 Dreamlifter, 1 Dreamliner, and the plane on the runway.

It is quite apparent that pilots observation skills were below par - would he (she?) have noticed a plane on the runway?

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#21
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Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 3:34 AM

....would he (she?) have noticed a plane on the runway?

Eventually.

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#24

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 10:15 AM

I saw the plane as it took off yesterday about 1:10 or so. They had plenty of runway and had no trouble with takeoff.

These planes are amazing and need a lot less runway that is published. It's just that the stated safety margins stretch out dramtically for worst case scenarios.

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 4:46 PM

They also rate them at full passenger and cargo load.

I'm pretty sure this one was empty.

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#27
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Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 5:18 PM

Right. The 9,100 foot take-off roll is at maximum take off weight.

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#28

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/22/2013 9:48 PM

Good sharing!

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#31

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 10:14 AM

The plane's not broken and nobody got hurt.

So, is this an accident or a near miss?

The referenced texts in this thread say that it wasn't the first time that the two runways were mistaken for each other. Why wasn't the possibility to make the same mistake again (and again) dealt with when it happened the first time?

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 10:26 AM

Pilot error.

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#34
In reply to #31

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 11:20 AM

Pilot era.

The only technicalities that could worsen his predicament is him not passing a drug test.

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#38
In reply to #31

Re: Experienced Pilot; Available for Immediate Employment

11/23/2013 3:01 PM

It's considered an incident, because nobody was killed and no aircraft damage occurred. Unfortunately here in the States, it takes "dead bodies" before the Governing Bodies will do anything to fix the situation.

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