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Participant

Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3

Axial Flux Alternator Size

11/28/2013 7:28 AM

I have a continuous improvement prototype project. Built a 17'X3' VAWT with a typical 10" dual rotor AFA 12 poles 9 coils. I am a little confused now how to approach increasing the size of the AFA. My goal is to run my pellet stove which draw about 100 watts below our average winter wind speed so in about 8 to 11 mph winds. Not unconceivable to my knowledge based on the size of the turbine. The power curve now is it starts to charge 24V bank in about 10 to 12 mph winds and hits maybe 12 to 24 watts in about 15 mph winds. Using a 16AWG stator it breaks fairly hard shorted out but not so much with an 18AWG stator. Both the stators perform fairly similarly otherwise. Of coarse the power curve is steeper for the 16 AWG so the 18 AWG is more consistent output. The 18 AWG stator warped with the motor on break in high winds. I am going to add a second 18 AWG stator to increase the size of the AFA. Am I limited to trial and error improvements or do you see a more educated approach to how one would size up motor size requirements based on what I have observed. The turbine having not stalled tells me it has sufficient torque that I have room to increase the motor size.

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Guru

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#1

Re: Axial Flux Alternator Size

11/28/2013 11:43 AM

I hate to be the one to tell you this but for what you spent developing and building your big VAWT only to get a few tens of watts you could have built a very effective and reliable thermoelectric generator that puts out a few hundred watts just by scavenging heat from your stove and converting it directly into DC electric power.

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#2

Re: Axial Flux Alternator Size

11/28/2013 12:46 PM

It appears that you're trying to use the generator as a brake...and simultaneously discovering why that it's a bad idea. Since you're using the short circuit to slow the turbine, all the energy from the turbine is being dissipated in the windings. That's why your stator warped. Normally braking resistors are located away from the motor because of all the heat that needs to be removed.

In high winds your goal is remove power input to the generator; i.e., reduce the mechanical input from the turbine. The best way to do that is mechanically, by feathering the turbine, braking it, then locking it.

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#3

Re: Axial Flux Alternator Size

11/29/2013 3:40 AM

VAWTs are to my mind, the best for us amateurs to play with, just as you have done.

They have a number of good points, one of which you appear to have missed in that electrical braking, though good to have for the short term, can prove to b a problem, as you have found out!

In an emergency, a method of slowing the rotor down (electrical can be good here) and then basically throwing a sack over the rotor, or dropping a big tube to cover it, will actually prove a safer method.....

The tube could even be automatically released when over speed is detected in some manner....so that it is safe even when you are not at home.....

It will need some vertical guidance, guy wires for example, to make sure it sits down and cannot tilt and catch the wind....etc etc etc..

The fine details you need to work out for yourself......

I wish you well in your experiments and a few photos of your VAWT would be appreciated by us all here, especially myself.

Further thoughts:-

Some VAWTs need to have the rotor covered up on the side where it opposes the wind to improve efficiency. This can be increased to a point where doors open only for the side in use and can all be closed if the wind/weather is to strong, or even just maintenance is required.

Building any windmill without a safe and 100% working method of stopping it and holding it stopped can be very, very dangerous to life and limb. That is where you need to start any design, not think about it afterwards....

Think safe.

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Participant

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Axial Flux Alternator Size

11/30/2013 4:50 PM

Electrical breaking, understood, thanks! I guess I was not clear. While the 18 AWG stator does break very weakly as opposed to the 16 AWG stator that breaks very strongly, breaking is really not my issue at this time. I posted it as an observation hoping others would have it as a guide to helping predict an optimal size motor. Just as I noted about not reaching a stalling state is an observation to help in that manner. I am increasing the size of the motor by 1.5 times. I began work on it yesterday and have finished 5 of the 9 additional coils I need. I will continue in 0.5X increments.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Axial Flux Alternator Size

12/01/2013 12:44 PM

Thanks for the feedback! Now the question is, optimized for what? Output current, voltage, losses, braking power, weight, cost, etc... More details = better responses.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Axial Flux Alternator Size

12/01/2013 9:22 PM

OK, first will doubling the size of the 18AWG AFA double the breaking power when shorted out making it harder to turn. Twice as many coils twice as many magnets.

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