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Anonymous Poster #1

Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/03/2013 3:23 AM

hi all,

We are using 3Cx240sqmm. cable from 3.3kV generator to switchboard through 110mm diameter pvc duct, the over all diameter of the the cable is 95mm. full load current of the generator is 350A, total lenth of the cable is 20 meter only. please advise that, is there any recommendation regarding the space provided in pvc duct, iee says that 60percent space to provided if there is more than one circuit is laying through one duct. but we are using 1duct for one circuit only. do we need to follow the same for one circuit also? since the cable size is more than enough to carry the full load current there will be no heat dissipation, so i hope the used pvc duct diameter is enough. please share your valuable advice,

thanks.

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#1

Re: space for power cables laying through pvc duct

12/03/2013 3:58 AM

Have you referred the technical catalogue of cable manufacturer? it gives guidance on various derating factors depending on the ambient conditions for cable laying.

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Anonymous Poster #1
#3
In reply to #1

Re: space for power cables laying through pvc duct

12/03/2013 4:41 AM

yes, tht factor affect the current carrying capacity only, and its enough also. it can carry up to 480ampere in 50degree temp.

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#2

Re: space for power cables laying through pvc duct

12/03/2013 4:03 AM

The usual language is based on how many conductors in a conduit/raceway; you have three, filling ~75% of the 110mm conduit. I think you need larger.

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#4

Re: space for power cables laying through pvc duct

12/03/2013 6:52 AM

First of all I don't think the cable diameter is 95 mm. Usual 3*240 sqr.mm 3.3/6.6 kV armored cable diameter is only 76 mm [or less!]. If the duct thickness is only 5.3 mm [DIN 8061-10 bar -] then inner dia.is 99.4 mm and 60% is 77 mm [border line].

According to NEC maximum permissible cable cross section it is 53% from rated [4"=101.6 mm]=74 mm.

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#5

Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/03/2013 10:10 AM

I guess that you don't realize that there are wiring standards for your location that address this very issue. You should find out what standards apply to your location. Since you did not know that these standards existed, you are not qualified to do this work.

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#6

Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/03/2013 2:50 PM

Best source is to check the tables in the "National Electrical Code" book. If not listed in those tables, they give the formulas for determining maximum fill for conduits. If possible also get the "Guide to the NEC Code" book". It helps a lot and explains it in more useable words.

If a code book is not available, it is also within the National Fire Protection Association codes as section #70.

Good Luck, Old Salt

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#7

Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/03/2013 10:39 PM

Use a code book.

If you can't find one in your local library, then check with your local electrical union.

There is ALWAYS a need for heat dissipation. What idiot told you otherwise?

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#8

Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/04/2013 12:00 AM

You need to refer to the cable manufacturer's specs for the derating factor applicable to the installation conditions. Remember that different types of cable have different current carrying capacities (PILC, oil cooled, XLPE, etc)

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#9

Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/04/2013 2:59 AM

If the cable run in concrete embedded duct bank I don't think the insulation or jacket thickness or other layers-as shield, screen concentric neutral, armor or serving [even the duct size] are so important in temperature rising.The main temperature drop will be in the concrete and the earth [it depends on earth RHO, depth and temperature].

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/04/2013 10:30 AM

BZZZ. Wrong

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#11
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Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/04/2013 3:18 PM

May be I exaggerate a little. If we take from Nexan Co. catalogue-according to BS-a 3.8/6.6 (7.2) kV Three Core armored copper conductors cable and run in a 4" duct [concrete thermal resistance of 1 k.m/w] 0.8 m depth in 120 k.m./w 30 dgr.C earth -we'll get 350 A ampacity [for 90 dgr.C xlpe insulation].The temperature drop [including 30 dgr. in earth temperature drop] will be as following:

Insulation: 11.55%; jacket, armor and serving: 10.88%, from cable to inner surface of the duct: 14.80%; the thickness of duct: 3.64%; the concrete and earth: 59.13%.The percent will be the same [approx.] if we use 6" duct instead of 4".

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/04/2013 5:17 PM

Cables with thermally conductive non-current carrying layers (shields) will act as a heat sink along the cable run. Nearly all of the heat produced in a cable travels down the length of the conductor and any shielding or braiding inside. So it does matter how much heat sinking material is also in the duct. Your earlier comment says "If the cable run in concrete embedded duct bank I don't think the insulation or jacket thickness or other layers-as shield, screen concentric neutral, armor or serving [even the duct size] are so important in temperature rising." Implies that you expect the low thermal conductivity of concrete (0.1~2 W/m K) or earth (?) to carry heat away. The copper (401 W/m K) conductors and even steel (43 W/m K) sheathing will conduct more heat away with less of a temperature rise. Now a metal conduit can aid in the heat dissipation but the question is about PVC (0.147 W/m K) conduit.

Now it can be argued that using the space that metallic shielding occupies to instead have more copper and less heat generated in the first place has validity. However, shielding and concentric neutrals will also reduce inductive heating from happening, too. So to say that the amount of added layers of shielding will not effect the temperature is just wrong.

Changing your comment to the difference between PVC diameters is an admission.

The number of cables that can safely fit in a conduit is a complicated collection of the heat dissipation and the mechanics of dragging the cables through the conduit. The local codes handle this without anyone having to calculate the thermodynamics or the mechanical engineering to do the job.

Follow the local codes.

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#14
In reply to #12

Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/05/2013 12:34 AM

Your remarks about thermal conductivity of different layers are very interesting.

No doubt the heat will flow along the metallic layers-as shield or armor. However, nor IEC 60287 neither Neher & Mc Grath takes this in calculation [except the eddy current or circulating losses induced here].

I think also-as you said- the duct diameter is dictated from mechanical consideration.

By-the-way, my affirmation that the concrete and earth thermal resistances are more important it is only in this specific case.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Space for Power Cables Laying Through PVC Duct

12/05/2013 12:06 AM

The cable installation conditions and the subsequent de-rating factors depend upon the temperature tolerance of the cable insulation. XLPE can withstand higher temperatures than, for example PILC cable, and can therefore be run at higher currents.

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