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Hobby Servo Question

12/05/2013 1:15 PM

Hello all, I have what might be a dumb question lol, I'm playing around with trying to build a small 3d printer, with just the junk I have around my shop, haven't worked for a few weeks, so don't have the money to spare for stepper motors, but have probably 30 RC/hobby servos lying around, my question was, if anyone knows if it would be possible, to make/buy a driver, to make them behave like stepper motors, most of them have already been converted to continuous rotation, for other projects I had used them for in the past, I was considering some type of optical system to track travel, but thought I would come and see who had better ideas than me lol, I have been trying google searches, but I keep coming up with industrial servo motors, just any input would be helpful, and appreciated.

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#1

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/05/2013 2:20 PM

It can certainly can be done. In a 3d printer, accurate motion is mandatory. The critical thing will be getting feedback from whatever you're moving to the servo driver and computer controller.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/05/2013 2:29 PM

Thank you for the prompt response, since some else doesn't think it's a crazy idea I'm inspired to tinker a bit further, and also to see if it's actually worth it, cost wise, or if it would be cheaper to just wait and get the correct parts, I appreciate the reply

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#3

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/05/2013 3:07 PM
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#4
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Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/05/2013 3:30 PM

Thank you, those are incredibly helpful, I spent the last two days doing google searches, and getting nothing, and feeling pretty stupid now, as I am both a featured author and pro member on instructables, I don't know why, but it never even occurred to me to look there, I was reading thru formum and tech posts on "maker" and CNC builder websites, thank you, and now, please feel free to have a laugh at my expense.

one of my creations lol

http://www.instructables.com/id/50000-volt-etch-a-sketch/

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#5

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/05/2013 11:58 PM

Depending on what old stuff you can find in your area, there were pretty decent stepper motors used in early printers like the Imagewriters and Laserwriters by Apple and HP, among others. Steppers were also used in the early floppy drives, but they are a little weak for use in a 3D printer...

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#7
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Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/06/2013 10:56 AM

That was my first thought. I just sold an old Panasonic dot-matrix printer with a couple of pretty hefty 36v steppers. Used printers and scanners are available at Goodwill, curb-side, etc. You have to be careful though, some of the new printers (and scanners?) use DC motors with optical encoders, like the old mice used. Hmmm, maybe this give OP some other ideas.

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#6

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/06/2013 7:27 AM

Sell the servos and use the money to buy used stepper motors as the changes you need to make to the servos for accurate replicable movement will cost more than proper secondhand steppers. You probably need special encoders added. A lack of basic accuracy will kill you later on if you don't do that.....fiddly work.

Servos are very good, if you have the necessary funds and they are bigger industrial types, no doubt in my mind, but model control servos will also have very limited speed and or torque and are small with usually plastic gears.....

Watch out when buying steppers as the best ones (except for some very high end stuff) are Bipolar only and need only a Bipolar driver system which costs more, but gives very good torque - very important.

Some steppers are Unipolar (but they can also be driven Bipolar), and the plus is that Unipolar electronics are slightly cheaper/simpler to make or buy generally, but you do not get as much torque from the same motors as with Bipolar.....

Proper servo control from say a PC costs more than stepper contro due to having feedback., but money can be saved by a self build using fine chips available today from many manufacturers, if you want names and numbers just ask!!

Servos are generally faster.....

Note the stepper motor type on an ebay auction for example and research its parameters and type. The voltages given are seemingly very low, but they are driven using spikes of a far higher voltage to make them quicker and to have good torque. Usually a good steady 24 volts will have most small 6-10 volt motors really humping, but do not overheat them!!!

No feedback needed for steppers (saves on complexity, some high end ones do have it) as long as the motor has enough or more than enough torque for the application.

Motors needing between 1 and 3 amps are usually great for many applications and are easy to find 2nd hand on ebay. I bought 30 x 2 amp motors for slightly over US$20 a few years ago. Only one was defective, but supplied some good spares for the others.....

An old PC with just DOS or Win95 or 98 will do provided it has, or can have a printer port....

USB is also available but due to timing restrains, can be a problem to get running well, stay away from any USB stuff at least in the beginning as the interfaces AFTER the USB port are far more expensive, to handle the timing problems properly, and generally slow down the working of your masterpiece, if they work at all.

A good maker of chips for steppers is Allegro, especially the newer chips, which do not require an external resistor as most of the others do from most companies.....available from ebay usually China or Hong Kong.....for around US$20 each plus post.....

Do join plenty of online CNC Forums for help, tips and assistance as well as cheap/free equipment.

Join Yahoo forums and search out those for CNC.

Search on Google using "DIY CNC", also on YouTube, read watch and learn before spending ANY money, many pitfalls!!!

Start here:-

http://buildyourcnc.com/

CNC does not mean "Command 'n Conquer", but you will get many hits for such games from Google when searching.....sadly!!!

Best of luck.

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#8

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/06/2013 12:26 PM

Thank you all, all very helpful, I have some ink jet printers as well as a few scanners but the motors are all quite small, i would definitely sell the servo's for funding, but I live in such a small town I don't think there would be a market, also I already modded most for continuous rotation, I didn't think I could do all the necessary modifications to use them cost effectively but wanted some extra input, I think I'll put out an add for some old printers on Craigslist, and see what I can come up with, thank you again for so much useful information =)

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#9
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Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/06/2013 1:23 PM
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#10

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/06/2013 3:59 PM

The servos you have are pwm controlled...the industrial servos are dc bidirectional and usually tied to an optical encoder and servo-amp controlled by a computer. Check out adafruit and Radio Shack, they stock a 14$ hbridge driver w/5v interface that can handle 25w at up to 48v and 2 analog or 1 stepper...the steppers from old 5&1/4 1/2 or full height floppys work great and I used to overdrive Riffa 3770's with a heatsink but at !4$ the adafruit parts are a steal for steppers.

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#11
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Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/06/2013 9:22 PM

I still have at least one full height 5 1/4" floppy on hand, but those steppers are awfully small to drive much mass. I think you'd want at least a size 23 stepper, as were used in many of the early dot-matrix and laser printers. I just recycled a dozen or more such printers about a month ago. I still have one Imagewriter II, and several such stepper motors in my collection.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/07/2013 3:21 PM

I checked on that driver board, it's from seeedstudio.com and uses an L298 dual hbridge chip and is available as a stand alone or a 'shield' version that plugs onto an arduino UNO...( what Radio Shack stocks)

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#12

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/06/2013 9:45 PM

Speed/torque requirements on step motors for a hobby 3D printer are not too high. Friction and inertia are your main opponents, so power requirements comparing e.g. to a CNC router are much lower. With the right gearing and cooling you could even use printer steppers. But the R/C servos are a whole different animal, usually a small DC motor driven by electronics according to the difference between the actual and the wanted position, that is defined by an input PWM convention scheme. This involves specific angle sensing that is not generally compatible with continuous rotation. S.M.

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#14

Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/07/2013 11:05 PM

Sorry for the slow response, and thank you all for the input! I have decided to heed your advice, I'm just going to look for some good used steppers and go from there, I have the benefit of knowing someone who actually owns a small company doing industrial automaton, he travels alot, and I try not to bother him, but I know he has tons of old parts I could talk him out of for cheap, otherwise Ebay! I might even search Craigslist for used printers, or even CNC equipment, my reasons for attempting to use the hobby servo's were to appease my wife lol, doing construction I don't pour much concrete In the Winter, she wasn't very happy about my shopping around for 3d printer parts this time of year lol, but I think I'll just go the conventional route, thank you all for the effort and the excellent suggestions, I'll eventually post a picture of the finished product, thanks again.

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#15
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Re: Hobby Servo Question

12/09/2013 11:39 AM

Sounds really good.

May I make a further suggestion to assist you, look for some really old junked 8" Floppy drives, they have quite large and robust steppers.

5 1/4" are the next best bet.

After that, some printers and scanners, as large as possible.....

Learn to control these first as they should cost almost nothing, if you get on well with those, you will know EXACTLY what size motors you need to obtain later.

The learning curve is very steep for such equipment.....you will thank me in a few months time, and have some fun as well!!!

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