Previous in Forum: Thinking About the Future   Next in Forum: Wireless transmitting brain wave?
Close
Close
Close
16 comments
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115

March of the Machines.

06/09/2007 3:04 AM

How possible is it to build a self replicating machine ? As an example , look at this link which is a bit dated.

Imagine something similar (but slightly more advanced ! ) unleashed on a beach. It can acquire energy from the sun , and raw materials from the sand and sea. What if that is enough to replicate its physical form and a 'desire' to do so. Could it ever happen ? will it ever happen ? what would be the consequences ? Discuss at leisure , whilst I check the wheels on my photocopier.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16499
Good Answers: 662
#1

Re: March of the Machines.

06/09/2007 3:26 AM

Whay aye pet, feed us Newc'ie an woorl self replicate!

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#2
In reply to #1

Re: March of the Machines.

06/09/2007 4:06 AM

I should have known that would come back to haunt me *!

Carbon units (and Magpies**) do not qualify for my nightmare (though they are troubling) - I was thinking of something nasty and Silicon based from all that sand. A bit like DNA replication in a cell , but with sophisticated bricks on a beach.

* Translator for those outside a 10 mile radius of NE England.

** link for non-Brits.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16499
Good Answers: 662
#3

Re: March of the Machines.

06/09/2007 4:37 AM

But seriously...

I'd imagine you'd get something like an algae, but silicon based...maybe crunchier, maybe it would organise into weird structures like those smokers on the seabed where volcanic activity superheats the water. Some maybe like corals...I can't imagine anything actually bolting wheels onto itself and trundling about.

(PS...loved the Translator site)

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#4
In reply to #3

Re: March of the Machines.

06/09/2007 7:07 AM

Hmm.

Smokers are (I think) restricted to volcanic type areas such as Oceanic ridges/rock forming areas. Coral sort of fits the bill , though it's formed by organic critters.

My intention here was pretty Science Fiction , but not so far as something sprouting wheels !

3D printers have granular compound fed in , and a shape is formed by a control program and a power source. Admittedly the link only refers to a printer that can replicate it's component parts (which obviously need assembly). But what if , in the future , such a principle worked with raw sand and sunlight. Imagine , if you will ;

1. Something is built by man -resembling a box with a grabber arm. It is left on a beach.

2. The arm scoops and dumps sand into it's own box.

3. The box (+ arm) produces a small scale replica of itself

4. The arm ejects the new formed 'baby'

5. The original box uses it's arm to flip along the beach (to acquire new material)

5. The 'baby' grows to full size and starts doing the same.

Yes , I know it sounds completely insane but it's the weekend so I'm feeling slightly madder than normal.. I am suggesting a process , and wondering 'what if one day...'

I want this device to be inorganic. Maybe I should have checked terra-forming sites first , but sometimes a naive and fresh approach works on such things.

(I thought the translator was hilarious , but I'll crush any device I see that gets linked to it !)

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Old Salt Hobbies - CNC - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Rosedale, Maryland USA
Posts: 5198
Good Answers: 266
#5

Re: March of the Machines.

06/09/2007 11:40 AM

I have seen some of the work these machines due. They are used to proto type parts where the set up to manufacture is very costly. To insure the part works. Only problem is its very slow. The one I have seen takes several hours to lay down a one foot length of window extrusion.

The sand crab is cold blooded acquires heat energy from the sun. Gets it's raw materials from the sand and sea. It replicates it self pretty well. On earth man has called this life not a machine. The universe is a large place. Who knows what your looking for may be out there. Just will have to redefine what is life.

__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving in a pretty, pristine body but rather to come sliding in sideways, all used up and exclaiming, "Wow, what a ride!"
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member United Kingdom - Big Ben - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Altair 8800 - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3968
Good Answers: 119
#6
In reply to #5

Re: March of the Machines.

06/10/2007 3:15 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo

There are planets out there covered in gray goo....stay off

__________________
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#7
In reply to #6

Re: March of the Machines.

06/10/2007 3:28 AM

That's brilliant aurizon - just the type of thing I was looking for. I shall digest it later today and report back. Excellent.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Guru
New Zealand - Member - Kiwi Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 8778
Good Answers: 376
#8
In reply to #7

Re: March of the Machines.

06/10/2007 4:57 PM

Geeze, and I thought my lunch for today was bad.

__________________
jack of all trades
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster
#9

Re: March of the Machines.

06/10/2007 5:45 PM

Google "Von Neumann Machines"

Thought: 'You are unleashing what is essentially a new life frorm.
What controls its expansion?

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#11
In reply to #9

Re: March of the Machines.

06/11/2007 2:03 AM

Thanks Guest ! I really should have thought to do some googling before posting this thread . Anyway , I thoughtthis was a nice summary. The end phrase about such things being a remote possibility for the possibility is a bit vague. It reminds me of Kelvins quote that I used to use :"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible".

I guess that a new life-form is only constrained in the same ways that human life is. Used up resources , systems breakdown etc. Many great empire in history have collapsed due to over expansion, invasion, social breakdown etc. These things make reasonable analogies for 'machine life'. Another thought is would we know that such life as I suggest had begun. Spores on a petri dish are not immediately seen.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: "Dancing over the abyss."
Posts: 4884
Good Answers: 243
#10

Re: March of the Machines.

06/10/2007 9:31 PM

If protein is a machine, its as easy as getting stranded on a tropical island with ginger and maryann.

On another note, a lathe was considered to be the one machinethat is capable of reproducing all of the parts needed to make duplicates.

That was before they invented software piracy...

milo

__________________
People say between two opposed opinions the truth lies in the middle. Not at all! Between them lies the problem, what is unseeable,eternally active life, contemplated in repose. Goethe
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#12
In reply to #10

Re: March of the Machines.

06/11/2007 2:11 AM

Arrr milo , ye makes good points .Shiver me timbers.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member United Kingdom - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harlow England
Posts: 16499
Good Answers: 662
#13
In reply to #12

Re: March of the Machines.

06/11/2007 4:20 AM

Arrr milo , ye makes good points .Shiver me timbers.

Q. Why are pirates evil?

A. They just Arrrr.

__________________
health warning: These posts may contain traces of nut.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#14
In reply to #13

Re: March of the Machines.

06/11/2007 5:24 AM

I suggest ye change yer name in order to save yer reputation - 'Del the Cat o' Nine tails' . Darn it ye caarnt. Ye be stuck as Del the Cat shipmate. Avarst. Splice the maintail methinks.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: KnoxTN
Posts: 1485
Good Answers: 6
#15

Re: March of the Machines.

06/11/2007 9:49 PM

"How possible is it to build a self replicating machine ?"

The more complex the machine the more difficult the replication.

There was a Sci-Fi book/story title IIRC "The Return of Rama" quite a few years back. The great space ship, RAMA, was spotted approaching earth and a crew was dispatched to intercept it and determine its past and projected future.

One man was able to find the entrance and explore it as it approached it rendevous with the sun. The closer it approached earths orbit and the sun the more activity became evident. I appeared that everything built small modules, followed by larger and larger ones, prepared the soil grew crops, harvested them, and eventually became dormand again as Rama receded from the sun. The explorers left in time to returen to earth.

__________________
Do Nothing Simply When a Way Can be Found to Make it Complex and Wonderful
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#16
In reply to #15

Re: March of the Machines.

06/12/2007 1:01 AM

Thanks Stan,

It looks like part of a Trilogy , mainly by Artur C Clerk. I know little of Science fiction , but I like the concepts that come from it - I'm just too lazy for fiction generally. I'll keep an eye out for a film version - I would think there is one. Conversely , I enjoyed the film 'Contact' and now want to read the book because I'm told the maths angle is fun.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 16 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); aurizon (1); Del the cat (3); jack of all trades (1); Kris (7); Milo (1); ozzb (1); Stirling Stan (1)

Previous in Forum: Thinking About the Future   Next in Forum: Wireless transmitting brain wave?

Advertisement